Heaven (Jesus, priests, reject, Moses, gospel)

[alasdair22]

Have you ever wondered what Heaven would be like, if you would ever get there, what you would do there and who you meet? The answers are already in the Bible! For example, Jesus raised people from the dead, so followers of Jesus could also raise people from the dead. Jesus walked on water, so followers of Jesus could also walk on water. In fact with faith, followers of Jesus could do anything.


So why don't they? Well, do people follow Jesus? – that is the first question. A careful look at the Bible and comparing it with society suggests not – after all, Jesus did not go into churches and participate in pointless traditions – in fact he denounced them and overturned the money tables and accused the teachers of the Law of hypocrisy.


Why then do Christians engage in similar behaviour to those teachers of the Law? Looking at the Bible we see that much of it was written by a man called Paul, on whose letters the modern day church system is based. Paul was not an eyewitness of Jesus, yet he sets up the church traditions and advocates payment of priests! So can someone who accepts and follows Paul be classed as a follower of Jesus?


What does it mean to be a follower of Jesus? Does it mean to accept the teachings of the Apocrypha, the Pope, your priests, other Christians, historical Saints, the Apostles, church traditions, Moses and the Ten Commandments – or does it simply mean to do what Jesus says? Clearly it just means to do what Jesus says. Following Jesus is precisely that – doing what he says. So what does he say? Jesus says a lot of things, but mostly his teachings are focused on helping the poor, sick and outcasts to society. Love the Lord your God and love your neighbour as yourself. Loving the Lord includes rejection of teaching that goes against what Jesus says, and that includes the teaching of Paul. Loving your neighbour as yourself includes helping the huge number of people in the world who live in poverty; give them food, heal them, provide sanitation and clean water and proper housing. Loving your neighbour as yourself also includes teaching others to do the same (follow Jesus, reject teaching that says differently and help the poor).


It would be great if people would follow Jesus just because it is the right thing to do; unfortunately the “common sense” prejudices of society view true self-sacrificial living, love and following Jesus to be “foolish” and people overwhelmingly choose to believe in Paul (whose letters state that you don't need to follow Jesus because everything's a free gift from God). The teachings of Jesus are seen by most to be too difficult (give up what you have and follow him). Yet God will honour and help all those who follow him to the extent that they don't need to worry about where their food or clothing is coming from.


This creates a huge problem. Essentially half the world bears the sins of the other half, and the half that causes the suffering won't accept that they are doing this, and flatly refuse to follow Jesus, purely because that is the established tradition over thousands of years and because Paul says you don't have to. If you don't believe me then think about it – how many people do you know that do what Jesus says to do? Be honest with yourself. A priest might look good in his fancy clothing, but in actual fact he is being paid to teach a religion that involves directing money, time and resources into his or her own wage and into the church building – not into helping the poor.


So it is time to enact a change in society. A tsunami has been predicted to occur on the 1st of April 2007, which will kick start the end time events. Hopefully the miracle of prediction, the beginning of fulfillment of Bible prophesy and the proof shown on the website (Google for "Proof for Christianity") will encourage people to follow Jesus and in doing so, help those who are in suffering.

[michel]

Originally Posted by alasdair22

So it is time to enact a change in society. A tsunami has been predicted to occur on the 1st of April 2007, which will kick start the end time events. Hopefully the miracle of prediction, the beginning of fulfillment of Bible prophesy and the proof shown on the website (Google for "Proof for Christianity") will encourage people to follow Jesus and in doing so, help those who are in suffering.

My, but what a cheerful outlook...................by the way, is the 1st April significant ?

[alasdair22]

Yes, here's a press release. You'll have to see the wesbite for pictures - I'm not allowed to post URLs here yet.

Tsunami Predicted for the 1st April 2007

The teachings of Jesus show us that we must sell our possessions, give the money to the poor, then follow him; a teaching seen as foolish even by most church-going Christians. In general, people do not follow this teaching. The result is that for every person in rich Western society, there is someone in the world living on less than the equivalent of $1 (50p) a day – about a billion people. A further 1.5 billion live on less than $2 a day, meaning that about half the world’s population is in poverty.

In order to alleviate the suffering of the poor and to provide a means for people to repent from their sins, God has arranged for an end. Plagues are necessary (a) to get the attention of those who would otherwise be apathetic to the plight of the poor, and (b) to begin the destruction of what has resulted from not following Jesus – the products of our own wisdom, the infrastructure of our self-centred capitalist society.

The first of these plagues is a tsunami, predicted to hit the East Coast of the USA on 1st April 2007. This date is significant because (a) it is Palm Sunday, celebrating the return of Jesus to Jerusalem and (b) it is All Fools' Day. Solomon and wisdom are the number of the beast and foolishness is the opposite of wisdom. As stated above, following the commandments of Jesus is seen as foolish by modern society. Therefore All Fools' Day is a day of anti-wisdom and destruction of the beast.

Emphasis is placed in the Bible about not knowing when things will happen (Luke 12,40: "And you, too, must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you are not expecting him."). Therefore, because the date is predicted, you can be sure that no one will expect the tsunami to happen on that day (it would be foolish wouldn’t it?).

[michel]

Originally Posted by alasdair22

Yes, here's a press release. You'll have to see the wesbite for pictures - I'm not allowed to post URLs here yet.

Tsunami Predicted for the 1st April 2007

The teachings of Jesus show us that we must sell our possessions, give the money to the poor, then follow him; a teaching seen as foolish even by most church-going Christians. In general, people do not follow this teaching. The result is that for every person in rich Western society, there is someone in the world living on less than the equivalent of $1 (50p) a day – about a billion people. A further 1.5 billion live on less than $2 a day, meaning that about half the world’s population is in poverty.

In order to alleviate the suffering of the poor and to provide a means for people to repent from their sins, God has arranged for an end. Plagues are necessary (a) to get the attention of those who would otherwise be apathetic to the plight of the poor, and (b) to begin the destruction of what has resulted from not following Jesus – the products of our own wisdom, the infrastructure of our self-centred capitalist society.

As far as the above is concerned, itis strange that my wife and I were talking about that exact subject a couple of days ago.

We do have savings; we don't give to charities often (we would rather give our time), but sure, I hate the fact that there are very poor people throughout the world.

what could I achieve ? If I gave away all our savings, I would worry about my wife and Sons; I take my responsibilities as a father and husband seriously.

I even recogtnise that if I was fitter, and single, I would want to go and help out in the third world; I wouldn't care what work I was doing, as long as it was productive.

I have, infact, toyed with the idea of gathering like-minded people so that - as a large group - we could make a difference. I actually tried to do that in my early twenties, only to find that the support I was given by people I had coopted fast disappeared as the time of action came closer.

As for Tsunamis, even if there was one on the 1st April, I would think it would have much more to do with weather conditions than with God; but I respect your beliefs.

[Seraphiel]

A tsunami?!? Ai... I wished I asked for a swimsuit this christmas.
The end of times was already predicted several times. The only problem is time never stops. Why are people so afraid of dying? It's the same as being born but just the other way around. We shouldn't be afraid for the death of man-kind. We will all live on at the 'other side'.

Don't panic live happy!

[alasdair22]

Originally Posted by michel

As far as the above is concerned, itis strange that my wife and I were talking about that exact subject a couple of days ago.

We do have savings; we don't give to charities often (we would rather give our time), but sure, I hate the fact that there are very poor people throughout the world.

what could I achieve ? If I gave away all our savings, I would worry about my wife and Sons; I take my responsibilities as a father and husband seriously.

I even recogtnise that if I was fitter, and single, I would want to go and help out in the third world; I wouldn't care what work I was doing, as long as it was productive.

I have, infact, toyed with the idea of gathering like-minded people so that - as a large group - we could make a difference. I actually tried to do that in my early twenties, only to find that the support I was given by people I had coopted fast disappeared as the time of action came closer.

As for Tsunamis, even if there was one on the 1st April, I would think it would have much more to do with weather conditions than with God; but I respect your beliefs.

Sounds like you have really good ideas. I appreciate the problems of family in this society (in a Christian society it would be quite different). In your circumstances I would be trying to convince my family that going to Africa, helping and living there would be the best thing to do - giving financial resources to those who clearly needed it and when it ran out then I would just be teaching people to follow Jesus (and because the money had run out I'd be able to teach the whole Gospel including giving all your things away and following him). I intend to go to Africa in the near future (sometime after 1st of April).

[Terrywoodenpic]

Have you ever wondered what Heaven would be like, if you would ever get there, what you would do there and who you meet? The answers are already in the Bible! For example, Jesus raised people from the dead, so followers of Jesus could also raise people from the dead. Jesus walked on water, so followers of Jesus could also walk on water. In fact with faith, followers of Jesus could do anything.

I do not believe in Heaven as a place, no Resurrection of bodies etc See my recent post http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...873#post699873

So why don't they? Well, do people follow Jesus? – that is the first question. A careful look at the Bible and comparing it with society suggests not – after all, Jesus did not go into churches and participate in pointless traditions – in fact he denounced them and overturned the money tables and accused the teachers of the Law of hypocrisy.

People try to follow the teachings of Jesus but we are sinners so fail.
God offers through Jesus infinate love and infinate forgiveness.

Why then do Christians engage in similar behaviour to those teachers of the Law? Looking at the Bible we see that much of it was written by a man called Paul, on whose letters the modern day church system is based. Paul was not an eyewitness of Jesus, yet he sets up the church traditions and advocates payment of priests! So can someone who accepts and follows Paul be classed as a follower of Jesus?

Paul indeed never met Jesus... However he had three things on his side
1 He truly Loved Jesus
2 he became the most effective of the apostles
3 his writing were preserved.

Till recently I was bothered by this. But now I can see that had in not been for Paul, we would not have many of Christ's teachings, or even have the form of our communion service.
That his background influenced his teachings is true, but mostly what he taught follows the teachings of Jesus.

What does it mean to be a follower of Jesus? Does it mean to accept the teachings of the Apocrypha, the Pope, your priests, other Christians, historical Saints, the Apostles, church traditions, Moses and the Ten Commandments – or does it simply mean to do what Jesus says? Clearly it just means to do what Jesus says. Following Jesus is precisely that – doing what he says. So what does he say? Jesus says a lot of things, but mostly his teachings are focused on helping the poor, sick and outcasts to society. Love the Lord your God and love your neighbour as yourself. Loving the Lord includes rejection of teaching that goes against what Jesus says, and that includes the teaching of Paul. Loving your neighbour as yourself includes helping the huge number of people in the world who live in poverty; give them food, heal them, provide sanitation and clean water and proper housing. Loving your neighbour as yourself also includes teaching others to do the same (follow Jesus, reject teaching that says differently and help the poor).

To be a Christian by definition is to follow Christ Jesus. It does not dot the I's or cross the T's for us. In many ways we must find our own path of salvation.
Jesus gave us a new covenant , so we are not bound by Jewish teachings.
You have listed many things Jesus taught... That is our route... all we must try to do is follow it in the love of God.

It would be great if people would follow Jesus just because it is the right thing to do; unfortunately the “common sense” prejudices of society view true self-sacrificial living, love and following Jesus to be “foolish” and people overwhelmingly choose to believe in Paul (whose letters state that you don't need to follow Jesus because everything's a free gift from God). The teachings of Jesus are seen by most to be too difficult (give up what you have and follow him). Yet God will honour and help all those who follow him to the extent that they don't need to worry about where their food or clothing is coming from.

Jesus asked his disciples to give up every thing and follow him, he did not ask that of us. Of course we can do that and it would be a sure path.
However the world requires more than Preachers. The world requires men of faith Vision and the fruits of their hard working hands.
We can all find a way to serve God.

This creates a huge problem. Essentially half the world bears the sins of the other half, and the half that causes the suffering won't accept that they are doing this, and flatly refuse to follow Jesus, purely because that is the established tradition over thousands of years and because Paul says you don't have to. If you don't believe me then think about it – how many people do you know that do what Jesus says to do? Be honest with yourself. A priest might look good in his fancy clothing, but in actual fact he is being paid to teach a religion that involves directing money, time and resources into his or her own wage and into the church building – not into helping the poor.

Neither Sin nor Priests are the problem....
WE ARE.
God wants your love ...
That means loving your fellow man... and all that that entails...
we must chose our selves what we can do... and do it.

So it is time to enact a change in society. A tsunami has been predicted to occur on the 1st of April 2007, which will kick start the end time events. Hopefully the miracle of prediction, the beginning of fulfillment of Bible prophesy and the proof shown on the website (Google for "Proof for Christianity") will encourage people to follow Jesus and in doing so, help those who are in suffering

God does not punish or tempt us , we do not bare each others sins.
Jesus has told us that he has paid for all our sins.
God has infinite Love, Infinite Forgiveness.
It is for us to Love God through Jesus and try to follow his path.

[alasdair22]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

Jesus has told us that he has paid for all our sins.

That depends on who you conceive Jesus to be. He said things like if you give water to the least person then you are giving it to him. In our society, about half the population bear the sins of the other half.

[athanasius]

Heaven...............is a great song by Bryan Adams!!!!