Oneness (ritual, mysticism, experience, atheist, spiritual)

[Random]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

I had hoped that Robert/autonomous1one1 would have offered his thoughts.

As did I.

Well, of course Oneness involes others, hehe. Here I think Godlike/Conor and Robert/autonomous1one1 might understand what I am getting at, as might Cynic and perhaps a few others... Seynori etc...) What I am getting at is that for some of us the experience never really went away. For most it would seem to be a "passing" thing, a cherished memory and in no way in fact "lesser", but simply not a permanent alteration of viewpoint. To this day, when I close my eyes, I see a Light and that Light is the radiance of Oneness. It has never left me in over three decades. I am sorry if my words imply my experience is somehow "greater" than that of others. Clearly it is not, although it is perhaps different. Otoh, it could simply be that my brain was overexposed during illumination and that the image is simply "burned in".

So please... accept that "lesser" and "greater" do not really exist and it is a bit of my own fault in not explaining myself clearly. For example, the barest instant of sensing Oneness may result in profound outward changes in the individual. For those of us who enjoy a somewhat permanent experience of this phenomena there is the possibility of becoming complacent... and taking things for granted.

Agreed, another way of saying this is that having experienced the most profound sense of all-pervasive unity, Oneness or lack of distinction, we realize that we all exist in a limitless Chain of Being which transcends time wherein the "I" is the "You" is the "We" is the "Us". Inasmuch as this is subjectively true, Oneness invloves others: everyone living!

[autonomous1one1]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

I had hoped that Robert/autonomous1one1 would have offered his thoughts.

And so I will, although with so many wondrous responses this thread is already a gem.

My apologies for the late response. I seldom have watched the 'discussions' forums (always at the 'debates' forums) and at the time that I discovered this thread I had a prior commitment that interfered with my immediate response. At least this will bounce this thread back to the front.

From my viewpoint, oneness is a very key word, YmirGF, for imo, every religion has a central aim or goal towards oneness with some infinite 'source.' This goal is called by different terms such as illumination, enlightenment, awakening, theosis, and others. So is the 'source' termed many different ways such as God, source, the Infinite, the Ultimate, the Absolute, the Ground of Being, and so on. Realizing 'oneness' is expressed with different words, too; often used are union, identity, harmony with, united or unity, mergence, dissolution into, and others. I like the words of the Pope in his first Encyclical Letter about The Unity of Love where he wrote about 'union with God:' "But this union is no mere fusion, a sinking in the nameless ocean of the Divine; it is a unity which creates love, a unity in which both God and man remain themselves and yet become fully one." But 'unity' and oneness can mean different things from harmony of will, to united in purpose, to 'one' in the union of love, to identity. Many of these meanings when applied to humankind and God in the last analysis leave 'separation' and dualism, although any of them will still relate to tremendous experiences. My experience moves into a realm of non-dual realism and description in words is difficult because as dopp has indicated in other threads, language is limited to the dualistic subject-object structure. With this in mind, I think the best understanding of 'oneness' from my perspective is 'identity.'

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Have you personally felt a state of being that can only be described as a state of Oneness?

Yes. After a few years on what I would call the path of knowledge, I had an experience into what I would call an intuitive direct awareness, for lack of better words.

Originally Posted by YmirGF

How did that experience change your perspective of yourself, God and Reality?

Totally, from a perspective of separate entities (oneself, God, and other things) to one.

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Did you emerge from the experience unchanged or unaffected by it?

No. There was a significant transformation of the self. It immediately involved many of the feelings of joy, awe, freedom, security, knowledge of eternal life, love of all, etc. that we have posted in other threads. The 'self' became redefined.

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Have you managed to duplicate the experience?

Yes, with ever increasing frequency. It is interesting that, as Michel wrote, when one tries to reflect on what the 'experience' is, one loses it because the experience might be described as involving the total awareness. After many occurences and immediate examinations afterwards, I concluded that a shift in self-identity to Self-identity was a very key aspect; a shift to realization of one's infinite Self as the true one that has been hidden.

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Have you managed to "hold" the experience?

The memory with all the results, the new being, is continuous and permanent but the experience itself, the awareness, is somewhat intermittent. I have read that it is possible to hold it 24-7, even at night, and I am getting better at it.

Originally Posted by YmirGF

How long did it/they last?

I would say several days with quick returns but never totally through the night; although I have awakened in dreams with the correct Self.

[Seyorni]

I'm confused. How can oneness involve others if oneness, by definition. excludes all otherness?

If Reality/the Universe consists entirely of a single Conscious Entity dreaming of diversity, where does this "otherness" come in?

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

I'm confused. How can oneness involve others if oneness, by definition. excludes all otherness?

If Reality/the Universe consists entirely of a single Conscious Entity dreaming of diversity, where does this "otherness" come in?

The human mind first develops an egocentric perspective. From that it can go on to ethnocentric perspective. From ethnocentric into worldcentric, and further. When these shifts happen it can seem as though others, previously rendered alien and separate, are absorbed into a more expansive perspective and sense of self changes dramatically as result. Even if there are experiences of oneness it takes considerable time for such experiences to encourage a more substantial and permanent shift in perception. Also there is always the possibility that what feels like oneness is actually solipsism, e.g. egocentricism doesn't necessarily develop into ethnocentricism such that an individual comes to see themselves as part of a greater whole. It can happen that egocentricism doesn't expand into more complex relations but collapses in on itself, resulting in a perspective where the 'other' is merely an extension of a limited self. Its often quite hard to distinguish between authentic expansion and solipsism.

[autonomous1one1]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

I'm confused. How can oneness involve others if oneness, by definition. excludes all otherness?

If Reality/the Universe consists entirely of a single Conscious Entity dreaming of diversity, where does this "otherness" come in?

A valid question, Seyorni, from one with the perspective of Samadhi especially, but the answer is simple and I suspect that there is not as much confusion compared to making a good point. Some of us communicate in two languages - one from the perspective of oneness and the other within the subject-object structure that most people know only. Some describe this as writing from 'above' or writing from 'below.' It is the latter in which the word 'other' is used. I find that even when Enlightenment or Samadhi are being described the language most often is within the subject-object structure about an 'individual' that 'overcomes dualistic subject-object awareness through unity with the object of meditation.' (Britannica online). I suspect that you have much better words than I to write always from 'above,' from the perspective of what I have called the New Being after others that have used that term. So, when I and 'others' write using the word 'others' please understand it correctly (lol) from your advanced position.

Does this help or add to confusion?

[michel]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

I'm confused. How can oneness involve others if oneness, by definition. excludes all otherness?

If Reality/the Universe consists entirely of a single Conscious Entity dreaming of diversity, where does this "otherness" come in?

I think I can understand what you are asking; I believe that we are all "of one".
The separation is only one when we are incarnate into a physical body....and perhaps (in some different way), in between incarnations.
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[autonomous1one1]

Originally Posted by michel

....The separation is only one when we are incarnate into a physical body....and perhaps (in some different way), in between incarnations.
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Greetings, Michel. Not sure that I understand this comment and maybe others will not either. Would you care to explain further?

[michel]

Originally Posted by autonomous1one1

Greetings, Michel. Not sure that I understand this comment and maybe others will not either. Would you care to explain further?

I would have thought folk would be fed up with hearing my beliefs......

I believe that God is "The sum total of everything that there is".

In the way that I believe in the Trinity (where there is God the Father, the son, and the holy Ghost), I believe that all that we know is a part of God; we humans have souls that originally were part of God, and that will return to oneness with God at the end of time. I believe in reincarnation; - the method by which we are to progress to get to the stage when we may rejoin God.