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Old 03-04-2013, 02:36 AM
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Default Redemption through Divine Blood

One of the core doctrines of Christianity is the redemption of sin via the shedding of the divine blood of Jesus through his Crucifixion and Death:

'Take this, all of you, and drink from it: for this is the chalice of my blood, the blood of the new and eternal covenant.which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.'

If faith is required anywhere in the teachings, it is here, since no one knows exactly how this is accomplished. One must only have unquestioning faith that it does.
Therefore, a scapegoat was required as the host upon whose back both sin and guilt were transferred and carried, this being reflected in the Jewish image of the scape-goat that is sent into the wilderness to perish. (Leviticus), the prefigurement of Jesus as scapegoat 'bearing the sins of the world', and as the sacrificial 'Lamb of God'.

Many of the ancients believed that the blood carried the life-force. If a warrior was slain on the battlefield, it was practice to drink his blood while still warm as a means of acquiring his warrior powers.

The Jewish practice of sin redemption via animal sacrifice seems to be the forerunner of the Christian belief.

In Mithraism, the bull is slaughtered and its flesh and blood were literally eaten and drunk as Eucharist.

In the East, however, it was the breath that was considered the life-force, a vital pathway to achieving Enlightenment. This was not based on belief, but on direct practice and the experience of spiritual transformation. This, too, was the practice of Yeshu the Essene, before his teachings were corrupted and/or destroyed by Rome, overwritten with those of St. Paul's 'Jesus', whose myth is the same as that of Mithra.

Therefore, the retention of the doctrine of sin redemption via blood sacrifice within Christianity is a pagan ritual, based purely on superstition, having no basis in fact or via direct experience, as in meditation and spiritual transformation of consciousness. It's efficacy is purely a product of the belief that it is so, with virtually no understanding as to how it is achieved. In this sense, we are talking about something called 'white magic', culminating in the ritual of the Mass, wherein wine and bread are believed to be literally transformed into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (ie; 'transubstantiation'). The process of sin redemption is two-fold: contrition, repentance and confession, and then the partaking of the Eucharist as a means of entering into the state of grace.

Yeshu's original teachings did not include blood sacrifice. In fact, Yeshu would have been a vegetarian as a practitioner in the Nazarene Essene community. Removing the layers of overwritten Roman doctrines is akin to removing the layers painted over Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel frescoes to reveal their true beauty hidden underneath.

It should be noted that, according to Essene teachings, which are said to be three-tiered, the first tier is for the initiates, while the second and third are of the inner Mysteries, of which the initiates would not have understood. It was the members of this first tier of initiates who broke with the Essenes and became the first Christians, their focus being primarily evangelistic, rather than mystical in nature. Therefore, doctrine and belief become the primary focus amongst orthodox Christians, rather than direct access to, and experience of the inner living source within, sometimes referred to as Gnosis, Namaste, the Kingdom of God, Big Mind, etc.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by godnotgod View Post
In the East, however, it was the breath that was considered the life-force, a vital pathway to achieving Enlightenment. This was not based on belief, but on direct practice and the experience of spiritual transformation. This, too, was the practice of Yeshu the Essene,
How do you know it was his practice?
What does the East have to do with the Semitic beliefs, however, with what Jesus would have known, which says in the Torah, the life a creature is in its blood? (Leviticus 17:11)

Quote:
before his teachings were corrupted and/or destroyed by Rome, overwritten with those of St. Paul's 'Jesus',
What makes you think they were corrupted or destroyed by Rome?

Quote:
whose myth is the same as that of Mithra.
Why do you think that?



Quote:
Yeshu's original teachings did not include blood sacrifice. In fact, Yeshu would have been a vegetarian as a practitioner in the Nazarene Essene community.
Why do you think Jesus was either a Nazarene or an Essene?

Quote:
It should be noted that, according to Essene teachings, which are said to be three-tiered, the first tier is for the initiates, while the second and third are of the inner Mysteries, of which the initiates would not have understood. It was the members of this first tier of initiates who broke with the Essenes and became the first Christians, their focus being primarily evangelistic, rather than mystical in nature.
Why do you think that:

A: The Essene's beliefs were three-tiered?
B: The Essenes and Christians were once one group?
C: That Christianity's focus is primarily evangelical, when Christianity has a fair bit of emphasis on "the mystery of God", "the mystery of the Trinity", etc, etc?
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:23 AM
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Why do you think that:

Christianity's focus is primarily evangelical, when Christianity has a fair bit of emphasis on "the mystery of God", "the mystery of the Trinity", etc, etc?
Any professed interest in 'the mystery of God' or 'the Trinity' is purely superficial and belief-based, and only serves the real interest, which is evangelism, conversion, and 'salvation':

"Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:20)
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:46 AM
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How do you know it was his practice?
Essenes are mystics practicing meditation, breath control, and yoga. Yeshu was a Jewish mystic.

Quote:
What does the East have to do with the Semitic beliefs, however, with what Jesus would have known, which says in the Torah, the life a creature is in its blood? (Leviticus 17:11)
The point is that the East (ie; transcendent practices) has nothing to do with the belief of the blood being the life-force. Yeshu was a mystic, whose views were generally antagonistic toward those of the orthodox Jew.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:06 AM
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What makes you think they [Yeshu's teachings] were corrupted or destroyed by Rome?
Because Yeshu's teachings required real inner spiritual work. Rome considered these mystical practices too difficult and esoteric for the masses. The Church wanted a simple means by which everyone could gain salvation, and that was the simple practice of accepting 'Jesus' as one's personal Lord and Savior via mere belief, a belief that through Jesus's blood sacrifice, one was saved.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:13 AM
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Why do you think Jesus was either a Nazarene or an Essene?
He wasn't. Yeshu was. 'Jesus' is a concoction of St. Paul:

The first followers of Jesus [ie; Yeshu], under James and Peter, founded the Jerusalem Church after Jesus's death. They were called the Nazarenes*, and in all their beliefs they were indistinguishable from the Pharisees, except that they believed in the resurrection of Jesus, and that Jesus was still the promised Messiah. They did not believe that Jesus was a divine person, but that, by a miracle from God, he had been brought back to life after his death on the cross, and would soon come back to complete his mission of overthrowing the Romans and setting up the Messianic kingdom. The Nazarenes did not believe that Jesus had abrogated the Jewish religion, or Torah. Having known Jesus personally, they were aware that he had observed the Jewish religious law all his life and had never rebelled against it. His sabbath cures were not against Pharisee law. The Nazarenes were themselves very observant of Jewish religious law. They practiced circumcision, did not eat the forbidden foods and showed great respect to the Temple. The Nazarenes did not regard themselves as belonging to a new religion; their religion was Judaism. They set up synagogues of their own, but they also attended non-Nazarene synagogues on occasion, and performed the same kind of worship in their own synagogues as was practiced by all observant Jews. The Nazarenes became suspicious of Paul when they heard that he was preaching that Jesus was the founder of a new religion and that he had abrogated the Torah. After an attempt to reach an understanding with Paul, the Nazarenes (i.e. the Jerusalem Church under James and Peter) broke irrevocably with Paul and disowned him.

4 Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity as a new religion which developed away from both normal Judaism and the Nazarene variety of Judaism. In this new religion, the Torah was abrogated as having had only temporary validity. The central myth of the new religion was that of an atoning death of a divine being. Belief in this sacrifice, and a mystical sharing of the death of the deity, formed the only path to salvation. Paul derived this religion from Hellenistic sources, chiefly by a fusion of concepts taken from Gnosticism and concepts taken from the mystery religions, particularly from that of Attis. The combination of these elements with features derived from Judaism, particularly the incorporation of the Jewish scriptures, reinterpreted to provide a background of sacred history for the new myth, was unique; and Paul alone was the creator of this amalgam. Jesus himself had no idea of it, and would have been amazed and shocked at the role assigned to him by Paul as a suffering deity. Nor did Paul have any predecessors among the Nazarenes though later mythography tried to assign this role to Stephen, and modern scholars have discovered equally mythical predecessors for Paul in a group called the 'Hellenists'. Paul, as the personal begetter of the Christian myth, has never been given sufficient credit for his originality. The reverence paid through the centuries to the great Saint Paul has quite obscured the more colourful features of his personality. Like many evangelical leaders, he was a compound of sincerity and charlatanry. Evangelical leaders of his kind were common at this time in the Greco-Roman world (e.g. Simon Magus, Apollonius of Tyana).

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/maccoby2.htm


*Essenes are a sect of the Nazarenes
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:01 AM
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Why do you think that [the MIthraic and Christian myths are identical]?

Mithraism, the soldier's cult, the official religion of Rome in Justin's time, celebrated a ritual meal, and archaeological evidence indicates this sacrificial community meal occupied a central position in Mithran worship. In this "divine" meal, worshipers ate the flesh of a sacrificed bull and drank its blood. When no bull was available, bread or fish were used as substitutes for the meat and wine took the place of blood. Mithran initiates believed that, by eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the bull, they would be born again and would have eternal life.


Transubstantiation
*****


The Mithraic mysteries, then, of...the sacrament of bread and water... were in practice... before ...the Christian mystery of Divine communion, with bread and water or bread and wine, which last were before employed also in the mysteries of Dionysos, Sun-God and Wine-God, doubtless as representing his body and blood. But even the eucharist of bread-and-wine, as well as a bread-and-meat banquet, was inferribly present in the Mithraic cultus, for the Zoroastrian Hom or Haoma, identical with the Vedic Soma, was a species of liquor, and figured largely in the old cult as in itself a sacred thing, and ultimately as a deity = the Moon = a king. Indeed, this deification of a drink is held to be the true origin of the God Dionysos, even as Agni is a deification of the sacrificial fire. And whereas the Mazdean lore associated the Haoma-Tree with the Tree of Life in Paradise, so do we find the Catholic theologians making that predication concerning the Christian Eucharist. The "cup" of Mithra had in itself a mystical significance: in the monuments we see drinking from it the sacred serpent, the symbol of wisdom and healing. Again, as there is record of an actual eating of a lamb in early Christian mysteries —a detail still partly preserved in the Italian usage of blessing both a lamb and the baked figure of a lamb at the Easter season, but officially superseded by the wafer of the Mass—so in the old Persian cult the sacrificed flesh was mixed with bread and baked in a round cake called Myazd or Myazda, and sacramentally eaten by the worshippers.


Pagan Christs: Part III. Mithraism: § 9. Mithraism and Christianity
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:16 AM
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"The early followers of Yeshua in the Jerusalem church had the problem of appealing to the Jews, who saw Yeshua's ignominious death as scandalizing. Paul had the same problem in appealing to the Jews, but he and the Greco-Roman missionaries also had the problem of converting the pagans, who didn't understand the conception of a Jewish messiah. But the time was short—they had to bring as many pagan converts into the fold as possible so they "would not perish, but have eternal life."

The beliefs of the Jewish followers of Yeshua were still Jewish; Yeshua was the messiah who would return and rout the Romans to establish the Kingdom of Israel. However, those appealing to the pagans and god fearers (non-Jews who worshiped with the Jews) had to make some changes in their presentation of Yeshua for non-Jewish hearers. The promise for the pagan converts was that Yeshua was a Messiah for all of humankind (not just the Jews) and that they could have eternal life without becoming Jews by just believing that Yeshua was the messiah for humankind, whom they termed the savior. The pagan converts would then not "die," but would have eternal life because of their belief.

These missionaries to the pagans had a major problem, however. Many pagans believed in a god named Mithra (or Mithras). Mithra was an ancient god, so he had tradition and the sacred tenor that an ancient history brings, just as Yahweh had for the Jews. He dated from around 1400 BCE, before Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. However, Mithra was even more widely accepted than Yahweh, Moses' god. He was known, in various forms, in India, Persia, Greece, and throughout the Roman Empire. For the Greeks and Romans in the first century, Mithras (with an "s") was the chief figure in a mystery religion called Mithraism that held prominence in the Roman Empire all the way through third century CE, especially among the military. His influence spread as far north as Hadrian's Wall and Germany.

So the followers of Yeshua had to convince the followers of Mithras that they should abandon Mithras and follow Yeshua. That would be today like standing outside St. Paul's Cathedral handing out leaflets telling Roman Catholics they should abandon Jesus Christ and follow a new God named Paul Bunyon.

But Yeshua and Mithras had something important in common. Mithra's followers were promised immortality and he had been entombed and rose from the dead, proving that immortality was available to those who believed in him. The promise of immortality and his rising from the dead were also the central tenets of Yeshua's message as the early church promulgated it. Those weren't the central tenets of Yeshua's message as he gave it, but the early church was intent on converting people because they were certain Yeshua was going to return any minute to establish the Kingdom of God and as many people as possible needed to be converted to get them into the fold before the return. The promise to entice them to convert was eternal life in Yeshua's Kingdom of God.

But Mithras already promised eternal life in Mithras' Kingdom of God, so why should the Mithraites convert to following Yeshua? Paul and the other followers of Yeshua outside of the Jerusalem church took care of the problem. They just made some adjustments in the story of Yeshua's life so the pagan believers in Mithras would feel at home with the Jewish Messiah. In the earliest sources (Paul's letters, written around 50 CE to 65 CE, a very early gospel termed the Q source we know from sayings in Luke and Matthew that are not in Mark, written before 70 CE, and Mark, the earliest gospel, written just after 70 CE), there was no miraculous birth and only modest supernatural occurrences in Yeshua's life. By the time Matthew and Luke wrote their gospels (around 90 CE), the story was quite different; Yeshua had a host of supernatural events surrounding his birth and death. The question is, where did these events suddenly come from?

We find them in Mithras. The missionaries promoting Yeshua as the messiah for humankind simply wrote them into the narrations about Yeshua."


http://30ce.com/mithras.htm
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:42 AM
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godnotgod, you are certainly on the right track in regards to Yeshua being an Essene and fully conforming with the mosaic law and the role of Paul in actually founding the Hellenistic Christ Jesus cult that dominates the globe today. However, in my opinion the similarities you draw between mithraic theology and Pauline theology are exaggerated.

Where is your evidence for this statement?
"Mithra's followers were promised immortality and he had been entombed and rose from the dead, proving that immortality was available to those who believed in him."

It seems to me that the evidence on the mithraic cult is poor. As far as I know there is no surviving mithraic literature, so how can we have such detailed knowledge of their sacred rights?
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:27 AM
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godnotgod, you are certainly on the right track in regards to Yeshua being an Essene and fully conforming with the mosaic law and the role of Paul in actually founding the Hellenistic Christ Jesus cult that dominates the globe today. However, in my opinion the similarities you draw between mithraic theology and Pauline theology are exaggerated.

Where is your evidence for this statement?
"Mithra's followers were promised immortality and he had been entombed and rose from the dead, proving that immortality was available to those who believed in him."

It seems to me that the evidence on the mithraic cult is poor. As far as I know there is no surviving mithraic literature, so how can we have such detailed knowledge of their sacred rights?
Here is something of fascinating interest you may want to take a close look at.

Quote:
"The Mithras Liturgy received its name and fame from. A. Dieterich. in 1903 Dieterich published his valuable book, Eine MithrasLiturgie, in which he proposed that the text in question contains an official liturgy of the Mithras cult, a Mithraic ritual for the ascent and immortalization of the soul."

Here is the rest of the article and a translation of the Mithras Liturgy into English:

Mithras Liturgy - Papyri Graecae Magicae

In addition, the Church fathers wrote much about Mithras, attacking the religion as having been created by the devil prior to the advent of Christianity to mock and intimidate Christians by imitating many of the Christian sacraments and the resurrection.

Early Church Fathers on Mithraism | The Devil Did It
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