Nothing Exists

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Is the statement, "The sky is blue," lacking belief? Or are we "never able to describe something fully without self-expression"? The two statements are essentially the same, no? So I'm not seeing the difference of "an opinion apart from its existence."

"The sky is blue" itself is a belief, that's why it isn't part of reality. The fact that it is a belief is why we care not able to describe the sky in colour without self-expression.

We can never see nothing for itself, but that's okay. It's nothing, so inconsequential.

It isn't 'nothing' just because we can't perceive it, it most likely exists in reality, but our perception is a dream built around it.

That's not true: if I say you're beautiful, I mean it. Truly. It's truthfully my opinion. It's true about me, that I think that about you.

If you say "You're beautiful" it is not true, it is a belief. You are claiming they are beautiful. Now if you say "I think you're beautiful" you are claiming that you think they are beautiful.

The subjectives couldn't describe reality even if they wanted to. But that's okay --it's not their job to do that. They leave that to the objectives and the absolutes.

And we do not know enough of the objectives and absolutes, and most likely never will, unless we can learn to escape our mind, but we are our mind, that's why it's impossible.

Their job is to express truth that lies elsewhere.

Truth is truth. Truth is how it really is, the way it factually is present not to you but to reality. Therefore there is only one truth, because if there is more than one truth, they must contradict and both would be an opinion, thus both are not facts, and thus more they are not truths.

Personal observations are not trying to be objective, or describe. It's only you warping them to try to make it so. If I express the opinion that you're beautiful, I haven't described you in reality, I've just expressed what I think about you (enscribed myself). To pretend it's description is what's untrue.

You're right, though, in that last bit, that anything "objective to our knowledge" is nothing. Nothing at all.

And I don't disagree. All I'm saying is because we only use personal observations that "are not trying to be objective or describe", we can never officially understand what the difference between a dream is and reality, and we are only perceiving what constitutes reality, it is not really the way it is.

We do not understand that we are using personal observations in a lot of cases, and I want to get people aware that what they are perceiving is personal observations, 99% of what they are perceiving is. So basically if you claim "life is an illusion" you are right to a limit.

At this point we're just butting heads, so I won't point out that it's not a falsehood at all unless you pretend it's description.

I'm not pretending it's a description, it is other people in the world that believe it is a description. It's kinda like the Matrix... maybe close to exactly like the Matrix.

Maybe I should give people a choice if they want to know how life works or if they don't (red pill blue pill phenomena). But real life is pretty much like the Matrix; our mind is making the system, except we physically exist in the system, but the system is covered by our mind.

An I'm saying reality "as it truly is" is nothing. It's certainly not reality as it truly is.

What is 'reality as it truly is' in the way you are describing it?

Your opinions are true, if they are allowed to be your opinions and not some description of reality. If they are true, they truly express you. That's all they're required to do.

And I don't disagree with that.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

What is 'reality as it truly is' in the way you are describing it?

- objective: in reality, in the statement about things
- subjective: in how someone thinks or feels about things
- absolute: in the universal statement
- relative: in the particular group or individual, or in the nature of something in relation to something else

i.e. in truth.

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by Willamena

- objective: in reality, in the statement about things
- subjective: in how someone thinks or feels about things
- absolute: in the universal statement
- relative: in the particular group or individual, or in the nature of something in relation to something else

i.e. in truth.

There is only one truth, and that would have to be objective

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

There is only one truth, and that would have to be objective

The truth is objective --I won't disagree. We see the truth in subjective, absolute and relative by looking at them objectively.

Edit: Each of the descriptions in my post 512 is objective. It's where we find the truth.

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by Willamena

The truth is objective --I won't disagree. We see the truth in subjective, absolute and relative by looking at them objectively.

How can we look at something subjective from an objective perspective?

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

How can we look at something subjective from an objective perspective?

As one nihilist to another (of another sort), if you believe nothing else in this world, believe this: you own "objective." It's yours to hold. It's yours to lift in your hand, and turn it left, or right, or even upside down if you want. It's yours.

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by Willamena

As one nihilist to another (of another sort), if you believe nothing else in this world, believe this: you own "objective." It's yours to hold. It's yours to lift in your hand, and turn it left, or right, or even upside down if you want. It's yours.

That is subjectivity. We can make what we want with subjectivity, objective isn't ours' it is reality's, it's the way things are, we can't play with the way things are in reality, we are humans, far from being gods.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

That is subjectivity.

It's you.

Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

We can make what we want with subjectivity, objective isn't ours' it is reality's, it's the way things are, we can't play with the way things are in reality, we are humans, far from being gods.

That's the objective perspective. Your objective perspective.

(What do you think a Setian magician does?)

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by Willamena

It's you.


That's the objective perspective. Your objective perspective.

(What do you think a Setian magician does?)

We're talking about reality not magic



How would it be possible to play with the reality behind something that is? Sure you can mess around with your opinions on what it is, but for one what is real is real, there's no changing that. Therefore you cannot change objective.

Let alone, even if you could, we have no objective perspective at all, being that it is all filled with subjective perspective.

[John Thiel]

"Life is but a dream" has a chant connected with it from earlier years in London: "Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream." That stream could have been the one in Avon, because Shakespeare has lines in his plays about life being a dream, or a fantasy.