God Hurts? (Jesus, Earth, experience, eternal, bible)

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by eXiled

We're supposed to love God, though... but isn't that love derived from fear? Is that true love?

So are we supposed to believe that God is afraid of something?

I'm not sure which point you're responding to. In the context of this topic, I'm not sure how to respond because I could take your point multiple ways. Fear of what? Punishment, loss, death?

[michel]

Sure God feels pain (I believe); he hurts if we hurt one of his - and that doesn't conflict with him being all powerful, nor say anything about his letting himself hurt; we have free will, and I am sure that just as I hurt when I see my cat catch a bird, I am sure God hurts when I harm someone.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by tomspug

So if our pain is God's pain, then how do we satisfy it? From my perspective, there is order to the universe, so for every negative consequence there is a positive choice that can restore order and meaning.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting at here. Rephrase, please?

How do we stop pain?

Perhaps by evolving beyond the need to inflict it upon ourselves.

Or does God want to end pain?

I don't presume to know what God wants. I do, however, believe that pain is ultimately beneficial.

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by Storm

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting at here. Rephrase, please?

I guess what I'm asking is if pain is something that CAN be fixed, and if so would it be ourselves or God who would do it.

Perhaps by evolving beyond the need to inflict it upon ourselves.

I don't presume to know what God wants. I do, however, believe that pain is ultimately beneficial.

I think it's a great theory to trust in the evolutionary process. However, I see no evidence that humanity has solved any of the problems it had thousands of years ago. We do not have less war, less disease, or less unhappiness. But hey, maybe we'll strike lucky in the next decade.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by tomspug

I guess what I'm asking is if pain is something that CAN be fixed,

Not fixed, overcome.

and if so would it be ourselves or God who would do it.

There's no diference from my perspective.

I think it's a great theory to trust in the evolutionary process. However, I see no evidence that humanity has solved any of the problems it had thousands of years ago. We do not have less war, less disease, or less unhappiness. But hey, maybe we'll strike lucky in the next decade.

1) You're impatient. Look at how long it took for sapient life to evolve so that such problems could be explored at all. I don't expect any major breakthroughs within our lifetime.

2) I'm not referring to human evolution here, but God's. The human race is just one aspect, which may well be abandoned as God evolves.

[Nordicßearskin]

Originally Posted by tomspug

I think that a big problem people have with the concept of God is the idea that if there was a God, he would be distant, impersonal, and the source of everyone's problems.

To quote the esteemed Karen Armstrong;

One day the Gestapo hanged a child. Even the SS were disturbed by the prospect of hanging a young boy in front of thousands of spectators. The child who, Weisel recalled, had the face of a 'sad-eyed angel', was silent, lividly pale and almost calm as he ascended the gallows. Behind Weisel, one of the prisoners asked: 'Where is God? Where is He?' It took the child half an hour to die, while the prisoners were forced to look him in the face. The same man asked again: 'Where is God now?' And Weisel heard a voice within him make the answer: 'Where is He? Here He is - He is hanging here on this gallows.'

Originally Posted by tomspug

If God is all-powerful, then why would God allow Himself to endure human pain or even emotional pain?

One of the central themes, perhaps even the central theme, of most mystical traditions within Judaism were that of God voluntarily restricting and limiting Himself. He has seperated Himself from Himself to create, and as a means of self-emptyingly loving that creation. During this process, however, a part of God fragmented and became lost within creation. God thus shares in our sense of dislocation and suffering, and is as dependent upon mankind to restore the divine order as we are upon Him.

These approaches were undoubtedly formed largely as a response to the continual exile and segregation of the various Jewish communities, and so I think in this case the question is really "Why would humans allow God to endure human pain?"