Omniscience (reject, choices, choice, creation, experience)

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Just so I'm clear then... Are you using the term as kind of a placeholder instead of suggesting that specific future outcomes already exist and can be known?

I'm not sure. By saying the future is already there I also say the past has yet to happen. The past and future is only relative to the present. If we remove the present time still exists but there is no past or present. There is just time. Everything is there. The only way we determine what is the past and the future is by the present. So the future is already there we just haven't arrived at it yet. The past is already there but we have already passed through it.

So basically what I am saying by the future being already there is this. The future isn't happening at this moment. But it is happening at a future moment that we haven't arrived at yet.

I don't know the future so I can't tell you what actions will be happening. But I can tell you that only the choices you make are what is going to happen. Choices that you don't make aren't going to happen.

I hope at least some of that made sense.

[methylatedghosts]

I have trouble with someone knowing what I will choose between several "options". Seems to me that the other options were not really options, but merely illusions.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by Francine

Absolute knowledge and absolute power are mutually contradictory. Once an event is sampled and recorded, it cannot be changed. To change a previously known outcome means it wasn't really known. The inability to change a thing reduces power to nothing. Omnipotence can only act where omniscience does not look. Omniscience can only look where omnipotence does not act. Limiting foresight is a condition for granting human free will. By averting His gaze, God carves out a space for men to freely act. This achievement allows created beings to respond to God meaningfully.

Absolute knowledge and absolute power are contradictory? How so?

Once an event happens it cannot be changed? Sort of. There is a prime timeline that cannot be changed but it is possible to go back in time and make a change that creates a new timeline. Countless alternate timelines have been formed. Only souls are allowed access to the prime timeline so they can attach with biological beings in various space/times to gain experience.

Omnipotence can only act where omniscience does not look? God does not avoid us, He knows everything we do, the good and the bad. This earth is not perfect because a place like that already exists. The earth is not meant to replace heaven. You think it should all be about you or about humans, it's not.

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by kadzbiz

I was under the impression that time is of no relevance to God. He exists at all times simultaneously.

The same thing can be said for you, yourself. The problem with discussions such as this is that they are based on a linear sensation of time. This is reasonable when time is seen from the standpoint of the three dimensional senses. The rub occurs when when learns how to move outside the confines of the box of that kind of thinking.

Originally Posted by Francine

Absolute knowledge and absolute power are mutually contradictory.

I would conjecture that neither in reality exist and are simply the products of limited conceptualization.

Originally Posted by Francine

Once an event is sampled and recorded, it cannot be changed. To change a previously known outcome means it wasn't really known.

And that defines the process of understanding as it happens. Any idea that we feel meets our standards as being "real" or having intellectual merit is simply based on our understanding at any given time. As we digest that "root assumption" we further the horizons of our thinking to include more than it did previously. In no way does this mean that our original premises had to be correct as each successive idea grows from within the "body" of its predecessor. Here I am thinking that you need to understand simple arithmatic before you can appreciate algebra and you have to appreciate algebra before moving on to Calculus and Trig.

Originally Posted by Francine

The inability to change a thing reduces power to nothing.

I am curious why you would assume it should do this in the first place.

Originally Posted by Francine

Omnipotence can only act where omniscience does not look.

Omniscience is by definition having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight; with the secondary meaning being possessing universal or complete knowledge. One the other hand, omnipotence implies having virtually unlimited authority or influence. To my thinking, depending on the context, they can happily coexist, even if I purport that no single being actually has such qualities as are ascribed to the various "god" concepts.

Originally Posted by Francine

Omniscience can only look where omnipotence does not act.

Again, why is that? Do you have proof of this? My thinking is that your original premise is flawed.

Originally Posted by Francine

Limiting foresight is a condition for granting human free will.

Curiously, I would think it is a result of and not a condition preceeding the supposed granting.

Originally Posted by Francine

By averting His gaze, God carves out a space for men to freely act.

This is simply anthropomorphizing the nature of "god". You are making the assumption that your supposed "god" has a "gaze" to begin with.

Originally Posted by Francine

This achievement allows created beings to respond to God meaningfully.

I disagree with your analysis and feel that it results from a flawed original premise. If you were to conjecture that the "god" most people imagine is quite possibly their own projection onto "Unknown reality" I might be cojolled into taking your suppostion seriously. Given that the quality of both omniscience and omnipotence CANNOT be proven via any form of testing then all discussions regarding their natures are simple speculation. At the end of the day, nice try, you are obviously quite intelligent, but sorry, no cigar.