Emptiness (creation, Zen, taoism)

[Master Vigil]

After a discussion about nothingness, I studied a little more about the Taoist idea of emptiness. While emptiness is not seen as nothingness, it has a vital role in the taoist viewpoint. For it is emptiness that the use of the material world is made true.

"30 spokes converge upon a singel hub, yet it is the hole in the center that the use of the cart is made." The spokes and wheel is nothing without the empty hole in the center.

"We make a bowl out of clay, yet it is the empty part inside that makes the bowl useable." What importance is the clay without the empty part inside?

The Tao is seen as the epitome of emptiness. Because "in being used, it can never be filled up." And it is the ultimate "maker" just as even a desk is made by the emptiness that surrounds it. If the emptiness wasn't around it, the desk would take up the whole room and suffocate everyone. It is a much different view than most have. They see the materials shape, but don't think that the emptiness around it is what makes it that shape.

[Prima]

I agree with you. Also, we often try to heal ourselves or find peace by crowding our lives with more things - more ideas, more help, whatever - when instead what we need are a few moments of emptiness, of no thoughts, of no ideas, of no help. Emptiness, even for someone who does not follow the Tao, is very healing. I believe the same about darkness.

[anders]

M. Vigil,

Following the principle of Wu Wei, as I interpret it "don't act unnecessarily and/or against nature", I shouldn't even answer. The Daoist forum, http://www.lioncity.net/taoism/, seems to understand this. Close to no activity at all.

I like the emptiness similies.

[Master Vigil]

Wu wei is still seen along the same lines. As it is doing only what is necessary and with the tao. It is not "non - action" but effortless action. It is effortless because it follows the emptiness well and therefore can "create" easier. If that makes ANY sense at all.

[Master Vigil]

Thats a cool forum. I'm gonna check it out later.

[Natural Submission]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

After a discussion about nothingness, I studied a little more about the Taoist idea of emptiness. While emptiness is not seen as nothingness, it has a vital role in the taoist viewpoint. For it is emptiness that the use of the material world is made true.

"30 spokes converge upon a singel hub, yet it is the hole in the center that the use of the cart is made." The spokes and wheel is nothing without the empty hole in the center.

"We make a bowl out of clay, yet it is the empty part inside that makes the bowl useable." What importance is the clay without the empty part inside?

The Tao is seen as the epitome of emptiness. Because "in being used, it can never be filled up." And it is the ultimate "maker" just as even a desk is made by the emptiness that surrounds it. If the emptiness wasn't around it, the desk would take up the whole room and suffocate everyone. It is a much different view than most have. They see the materials shape, but don't think that the emptiness around it is what makes it that shape.

Yes, when one climbs the latter of creation, one will begin to see the world of emptiness, soon to realize the Tao is everything that exists.

[anders]

Yes, a cool forum. Almost frozen.

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

Yes, when one climbs the latter of creation, one will begin to see the world of emptiness, soon to realize the Tao is everything that exists.

Well, a taoist wouldn't believe in a "ladder of creation." But I get your point. And remember, they won't see a world of "Nothingness." It will be a world of "Emptiness." Big difference. And yes the Tao is everything, emptiness and fullness.

[Natural Submission]

Mind you i am speaking mystically. When we meditate we do not really "ascend", although this is a good way to understand the concept. Likewise, the "latter of creation" can represent the "latter of Understanding" in which a Taoist must "ascend" through, to unfold. In truth there is no length, height or width, we need not move from our current positions to understand the Tao. The further we go, the more we realize we know no-thing. As Lao Tzu said "Wise people know 10,000 thing without going to each one. They know them without having to look at each one, and they transform all without acting on each one."

[Master Vigil]

Indeed. We can know the world without even leaving our chair in the mind of Lao Tzu. I still don't think using a "ladder of understanding" is a good way to understand a concept in taoism. We don't ascend, and nothing becomes unfolded. If anything, we descend. But that still doesn't cut it.