Tao nature, and human nature. (ritual, experience, spiritual, verse)

[Master Vigil]

It is safe to say that all things are Tao and all happenings come from the Tao. Yet, how can a human seem to go against balance? When the Tao IS balance?

[Fra.Morelia]

Perhaps it is a larger scale than we percieve? I am not too sure, but perhaps one mans imbalance is correcting anothers. That would allow for them both to be one with the Tao, but still be imbalanced. Or perhaps their percieved imbalance in balacing something out on the spiritual side. I am a shoddy philosopher, Master Vigil, and that is the best I can come up with.
ops:

[Runt]

Two people who are very polarized (unbalanced) can compliment each other very well. "Opposites attract". In a way every part of the Natural Tao can be said to be unbalanced. It is only when every part is paired up with its binary partner that that binary system becomes balanced. In fact, it is only when an element matches up with its binary partner that it can truly be said to come into existence... So what does this suggest about us as individuals? That we are “okay”, “natural”, flaws and all, because somewhere in the universe there is another being who is our perfect opposite and who, with us, brings balance to the universe.

And yet at the same time we may find that we can have a more personal relationship with the Tao by trying to balance ourselves, rather than being one half of a balancing pair.

External vs Internal/Macrocosm vs Microcosm/Us as a part of the Natural Tao vs the Natural Tao as a part of us...

[Master Vigil]

So is it safe to say that all things being imbalanced are part of the Tao for they along with their opposites make up the balanced universe?

And are only humans imbalanced in and of themsleves? For the rest of nature seem to follow the Tao with no effort at all. What makes humans different, or are we no different at all?

[Fra.Morelia]

I would say that no single part of nature, much like humans, is balanced, but that they balance each other. As perhaps we do. I personally think humanity to be an animal out of check. What I mean is rabbits will do the happy and spawn until they eat everything in sight. Unless something eats them. Thus it requires multiple parts of the whole for any balance. Humanity no longer has a check strong enough. Yes we have disease, but it still is not appreciably slowing our growth.

[Runt]

So is it safe to say that all things being imbalanced are part of the Tao for they along with their opposites make up the balanced universe And are only humans imbalanced in and of themsleves? For the rest of nature seem to follow the Tao with no effort at all.

When all particular things in nature are viewed independently of their opposite, one can see all things are unbalanced because they are polarized. They fit into one extreme or another. Yet when paired with their opposite, they bring unity to the Tao.

I therefore think it is the nature of all things to be imbalanced. Not just humans, but every element within the Natural Tao, whether it be a rock or a concept such as love. Is not Light imbalanced in and of itself when it is not paired with Dark? It is the pairing of each element with its opposite that brings balance to the Tao as a whole.

But this is only the macrocosmic reality.

What makes humans different, or are we no different at all?

The Tao also is a microcosmic reality. All particular things are made up of binary pairs. For example, a "human" is made up of a physical reality and a mental reality. Within the physical reality were are made up of liquids and solids. Our muscles push and pull. Our heart contracts and expands. We breathe in and out. Within the mental reality we understand good and evil. We have likes and dislikes. There are things we find comforting and things we fear.

So everything is basically a conglomeration of binary pairs. Yet in all things there is still unbalance, because although a thing may include both sides of a binary pair, one side may be larger or smaller than the other. A human can have more hate than love. Water has two hydrogens and only one oxygen.

And yet the general belief is that all things are balanced and at one with the Tao except for humans. Why is this? What is the difference between humans and all other things? How can other things be unbalanced and yet be considered balanced and therefore at one with the Tao?

I think it comes down to a question of "Is the unbalance a natural one, or is it unnatural and caused by the thing itself?"

The only difference between us and everything else is that we have minds which we use to understand the world, but which make the natural unbalance within ourselves UNNATURAL. Water does not have more hydrogens than oxygens because its life experiences have caused it to lose oxygen and gain hydrogen. Humans, however, DO have life experiences, from which we draw conclusion, with which WE unbalance OURSELVES more than is natural.

So when we speak of the "unbalance" that prevents humans from seeing that they are one with the Tao (I think they ARE one with the Tao regardless of whether or not they are unbalanced--because somewhere there is another human their exact opposite. The issue is whether or not they realize this fact), we speak of our unnatural mental rather than natural physical unbalance.

[Master Vigil]

But do we make ourselves imbalanced? Especially since everything comes from the Tao? So even our thought processes that allow us to think we are out of balance is still balanced due to the Tao. Then what is the need for meditation? Is it simply an illusion we have? Or are we really out of balance in and of ourselves that we need to get back into balance? And once we do, does another go in the opposite direction so to have balance as a whole?

[FairweatherFool]

I apologize in advance if my statement is illogical. I'm not in my right mind lately.

It helps me to visualise balance as a center, a sphere within which all possibilities occur simultaneously, cancelling each other out until the very spectrum of existence and non-existence cease to matter.

To expand on that, I feel that as one gets further from the center, one's awareness becomes more refined. I.e. There is less white noise as various spectrums space out and one drifts into a very specific point among many possibilities.

I think that meditation brings one closer to balance. Enlightenment, I suppose would be acheived by reaching the exact center. I'm not sure yet what that entails.

[Master Vigil]

It is a good thought Fairweather. You sound like you are in the right mind set. However from a taoist point of view I would say there is no center, there is only tao. You see, the Tao may be perfect balance, but it is everything. Not just the center, not just the outer rim. It is all and all is tao. Therefore, to achieve enlightenment and peace for a taoist to to become one with all, and one with tao. To understand it, and to live life according to it. I hope that helped a little bit.

[Master Vigil]

I wanted to bump this thread back up, because I am interested in the view points of the taoists we now have here.