Energy = Chi? (mystic, eternal, philosophy, religions, science)

[Master Vigil]

Well what do you think? Do you think the proveable scientific idea of energy is equateable to the taoist idea of chi? Both can neither be created or destroyed?

[robtex]

I would buy that theory. I think a lot of the chi/ki theories came about at a time where science was less developed and seems in martial arts at least that a lot of the chi/ki exercises are examples of princples of physics.

[Master Vigil]

A taoist would then infer that chi is tao's presence. Could that be proof of tao?

[cfer]

Is there any need for the proof of tao? It was my understanding that the tao was something that one could only feel but never actually touch, see, hear, etc. It cannot be classified, correct?

If that's the case, how can it be proven to exist?

[anders]

I'm not even interested in the Daoist ideas of qì (气). There are so many other aspects that I find more rewarding.

[cfer]

Originally Posted by anders

I'm not even interested in the Daoist ideas of qì (气). There are so many other aspects that I find more rewarding.

Forgive my ignorance, but what other aspects are those? Are you referring to Taoism, another religion/philosophy, or just all religions in general?

[Master Vigil]

Well, see there is two sides to the Tao. There is the Tao that can be talked about, and the Eternal Tao. See, everything is tao, and therefore watching a bird fly is proof of tao because the Tao made that happen. But there is a mystical side to the tao which no man can even begin to understand, because it is perfect. But like anything, we can understand the source by looking at how everything works. The Tao is natures beginning and end, it causes everything, so if we look at the natural way that life works, than we can understand how tao works. Does that make sense?

Ander's what other aspects do you find rewarding? Chi is very fundamental to a taoist, and is seen differently than a confucian. But even korean religions see it the same way as taoists do. I'm very interested to here these other aspects.

[anders]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Well, see there is two sides to the Tao. There is the Tao that can be talked about, and the Eternal Tao.

Sure is; Dao De Jing 1: Dao ke Dao, feichang Dao etc.

But like anything, we can understand the source by looking at how everything works. The Tao is natures beginning and end, it causes everything, so if we look at the natural way that life works, than we can understand how tao works. Does that make sense?

I am not interested in how the Dao works. I just want to find principles I can adhere to, to make my life, and preferrably other people's (beings') lives as well, as rewarding as possible. In this, I am rather following the advice of the Buddha, freely paraphrased as: don't just believe teachings, not even mine, but check them out to see if they work for you.

[michel]

Yes, master Vigil; I have always seen energy=Chi, and, as you say, neither can be created nor destroyed.
In Reiki meditation, it is always imperative to 'flush out' the Ki (or Chi-same thing) as, having allowed a build up of ki witout then 'giving it back' would cause problems for oneself.

[Master Vigil]

"I am not interested in how the Dao works. I just want to find principles I can adhere to, to make my life, and preferrably other people's (beings') lives as well, as rewarding as possible."

I completely agree. And to a taoist, we believe the same as buddha. Do not believe teachings, we believe in the way of the universe. The point is, what ever happens happens naturally happens the way it should happen. By understanding the way tao works, one can adhere to that way (the natural way of the universe.) This of course changes with each individual, thus we have tao as teacher. And not a person. Just as Lao Tsu never stuck around to teach, the Tao teaches for him.