Dao and Logos

[Hyperborean]

Although the logos may be translated literally and in the most basic sense as “Word” as it is in English translation, in reality it extends beyond mere words; the semantic field of logos includes thought, speech, and reason. The literal translation of the Chinese phrase 道可道, which is translated as “The Dao which can be spoken” also extends this same meaning to the word Dao, by associating it with speech which corresponds to the Greek λόγος in translation.

According to Chapter 42 of the Daodejing: 道生一，一生二，二生三，三生萬物。萬物負陰而抱陽，沖氣以為和。(Dao begets one, one begets two, two begets three, three begets a myriad things. All things carry the yin and embrace the yang. And by breathing together harmony is effected between the two). So just as in the Christian worldview, the Logos is linked through an unchanging, unmoving God who separated light and dark according to the narrative in Genesis, the Dao is also linked to the creation of “all things” (πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο) through yin and yang.

Read more at: Between Asgard and the Western Paradise » Blog Archive » The Dao and the Logos

[ben d]

Originally Posted by Hyperborean

According to Chapter 42 of the Daodejing: 道生一，一生二，二生三，三生萬物。萬物負陰而抱陽，沖氣以為和。(Dao begets one, one begets two, two begets three, three begets a myriad things. All things carry the yin and embrace the yang. And by breathing together harmony is effected between the two). So just as in the Christian worldview, the Logos is linked through an unchanging, unmoving God who separated light and dark according to the narrative in Genesis, the Dao is also linked to the creation of “all things” (πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο) through yin and yang.

Yes, this theme is also seen here in Isaiah Chapter 45.7.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


The Dau is transcendent, but ying and yang, like good and evil are merely manifested qualities of a complementary opposite nature that are the very basis of all creation.

[Master Vigil]

Although the logos may be translated literally and in the most basic sense as “Word” as it is in English translation, in reality it extends beyond mere words; the semantic field of logos includes thought, speech, and reason. The literal translation of the Chinese phrase 道可道, which is translated as “The Dao which can be spoken” also extends this same meaning to the word Dao, by associating it with speech which corresponds to the Greek λόγος in translation.

Yet Lao Tzu clearly states that the Tao which can be spoken is not Tao. Also, Yin and yang are not seen as good or evil. The Tao is better personified by emptiness in a bowl.

[ben d]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Yet Lao Tzu clearly states that the Tao which can be spoken is not Tao. Also, Yin and yang are not seen as good or evil. The Tao is better personified by emptiness in a bowl.

Yes, while it is true that the Tau which can be spoken is not the eternal Tao, it is likewise true that the Logos which can be spoken is not the eternal Logos.

The myriad things which emanates from the 'Tau that can be spoken' (道可道,), likewise emanate from the 'Word' (λόγος). This is a universal theme.

Ying and yang represent the complementary opposite duality in the Taoist theme, likewise good and evil represent complementary opposite duality in the Genesis theme.

And as Taoism warns of the loss of the oneness when duality comes into being when mind begins to make distinctions,.. (The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. first verse of The Faith Mind) Likewise in Genesis, mankind is warned of the loss of perfection when duality comes into being by eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the consequence of which is the 'Fall'. It is my understanding that 'eating of the fruit of ....knowledge of good and evil' is metaphorical language for mind making distinctions.

Jesus teaches that the father (Logos) and I are one, meaning that in the Christ state, no duality is present. Taoism teaches that when no duality is present, the transcendent Tau is all there is.

[Master Vigil]

Not bad. As long as you see logos as unknowable, and you see neither good nor evil as being better or more important than the other... your basic premise is valid.

[PureX]

Tao and logos are very similar concepts.

The word 'tao' refers the way that the great mystery manifests itself as our universe. Remember that the tao is not the great mystery, itself. That mystery has no name, as no word or human idea can define it.

Likewise, the word 'logos' is ancient Greek, and refers to a Divine Ideal, or plan (logic), from which springs all the physical manifestations of same, that we experience as life in the universe. The only difference between the two words, is that the ancient Chinese would not attempt to characterize the source at all, except as mystery, as an assent to humility, whereas the Greeks did characterize it as God's intent, though in this case they would not define "God".

Good and evil have nothing to do with either concept.

[ben d]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Not bad. As long as you see logos as unknowable, and you see neither good nor evil as being better or more important than the other... your basic premise is valid.

Hi vigil,

Yes, it is my understanding that the Logos is omnipresent, and a mortal who exists in time and space can't possibly know a state of being that is beyond time and space. However what is impossible for a mortal is not impossible for the Logos. The very idea that there is me and the Logos, ie. me and not me, is one that 'closes the door' on the possibility of realizing that which Jesus was trying to convey in his teaching,.. "Know ye not that ye are temples of the living Logos", ie. a differentiated expression of the integrated Logos.

As for seeing neither good nor evil as being better or more important than the other, it would seem to me that the following expression from Isaiah 45.7 amply explains that the very Logos expresses itself as the cosmos through, from a discriminating mortal perspective, as light and darkness, good and evil, etc..

Isaiah 45. 7, God says "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

The Tao says, the one begets two, the two begets three, and the three begets the ten thousand things.

[zenzero]

Friends,
After ben d, has responded, there is no room for any addition.
Namaste friend ben d.
Love & rgds

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by ben d

Hi vigil,

Yes, it is my understanding that the Logos is omnipresent, and a mortal who exists in time and space can't possibly know a state of being that is beyond time and space. However what is impossible for a mortal is not impossible for the Logos. The very idea that there is me and the Logos, ie. me and not me, is one that 'closes the door' on the possibility of realizing that which Jesus was trying to convey in his teaching,.. "Know ye not that ye are temples of the living Logos", ie. a differentiated expression of the integrated Logos.

It seems like you are stretching it a bit here. I never said anything about the Tao being omnipresent. But I still see where you're trying to draw the comparison, and I think you are correct in your assumptions. Your premises are just being a bit stretched that's all. But that is because you are straddling 2 very different cultures, with 2 very different philosophical ideals.

Originally Posted by ben d

As for seeing neither good nor evil as being better or more important than the other, it would seem to me that the following expression from Isaiah 45.7 amply explains that the very Logos expresses itself as the cosmos through, from a discriminating mortal perspective, as light and darkness, good and evil, etc..

Isaiah 45. 7, God says "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

The Tao says, the one begets two, the two begets three, and the three begets the ten thousand things.

I see now, I feel you are incorrectly attributing the "effects of Tao" to Tao. And are seeing the similarities. As by what you are saying, I would say it is more correct to assume that Logos is in comparison to Chi.