Taosist? (ritual, Earth, beliefs, translation, America)

[Comet]

I am only recently researching Taoism. I have some questions for those Taoists I know here, as well as any other that might be here now. I don't come around as often as I used to, but I do check in from time to time. So, if it takes a while for me to respond... I aplogize.

Questions:

It seems that differet Taoists hold different beliefs. Are there any "fundamental" beliefs that all hold?

I would like to know more about any such beliefs that are held in Taoism about the "void"/the nothing.

Taosim is translated as "the way" or "path" many times. What is it that the "way" or "path" is taking you to?

Thanks for responses.

[Somkid]

The Tao like almost anything else is left opened to a little interpretation by the reader. There are currently 86 translations of The Tao that I know of in English each one is uniquely different.
As far as "fundamentalism goes the Tao was written as philosophy never intended to be a religion however those who have turned it into a religion worship the Chinese gods of long ago or it is combined with ancestor worship, to the best of my knowledge there is no "fundamentalism" that I have observed.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "void" the Tao is everything and everything is the Tao so if there would be any void it also would be the Tao.

The way and the path refer to living life with nature or natural living being one with everything in harmony perhaps the Native Americans are a good example of this.

[Master Vigil]

A stream has much more ability to tell you about Tao than I. So I would say, watch a stream.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by Somkid

The Tao like almost anything else is left opened to a little interpretation by the reader. There are currently 86 translations of The Tao that I know of in English each one is uniquely different.
As far as "fundamentalism goes the Tao was written as philosophy never intended to be a religion however those who have turned it into a religion worship the Chinese gods of long ago or it is combined with ancestor worship, to the best of my knowledge there is no "fundamentalism" that I have observed.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "void" the Tao is everything and everything is the Tao so if there would be any void it also would be the Tao.

The way and the path refer to living life with nature or natural living being one with everything in harmony perhaps the Native Americans are a good example of this.

That actually clears up a few things for me, thanks. I was reading it like it was more philosophy, then I got some web sites about the spirits of different things and that went into the old Chineese gods. I'll have to look for that "void" passage I read on one of the sites again to refer back to it.

When I read about the way or path, it did remind me very much of some of the Native American religions I've read of. Though they seem to be a little more "set" in things. So Taoism is to a Taoist as it is to them, not to any other? What would one mean by calling themself a Taoist, if there are many philosophies within it? (hope that made sence) Does a Taoist believe in god or something to that effect, or just that the Tao is all?

A stream has much more ability to tell you about Tao than I. So I would say, watch a stream.

I often do as I enjoy it and feel more at peace than when I watch the city movement...

[Master Vigil]

Humans are at the bottom of the "spiritual ladder". We truly struggle with letting go of attachments, and therefore struggle with understanding God or Tao. If only we could just be like the stream.

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Humans are at the bottom of the "spiritual ladder". We truly struggle with letting go of attachments, and therefore struggle with understanding God or Tao. If only we could just be like the stream.

The stream, too, is at the bottom of the spiritual ladder. It seeks the lowest places. Valley floors, swamps, river bottoms, and finally the sea.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Humans are at the bottom of the "spiritual ladder". We truly struggle with letting go of attachments, and therefore struggle with understanding God or Tao. If only we could just be like the stream.

The stream, too, is at the bottom of the spiritual ladder. It seeks the lowest places. Valley floors, swamps, river bottoms, and finally the sea.

I find this very curious. As the water is the "lowest" it is also what brings us life. It reminds me of an old Anishinabe story (the tribe of Native American I am).... Perhaps it is off topic, but I don't think so after those comments:

Long story short- When Sky Woman came down to Earth there was only water. The turtle took her on his back to stay and all the animals brought her something valid. All she needed was the soil. All the animals tried to do so but failed. The lowly muskrat was the only one who was able to dive to the bottom of the waters and offered Sky Woman a handful of dirt. That is the foundation all is built upon.

Perhaps like the stream, the lowliest of things (as you both say) can we begin to understand.... our importance in things and a higher meaning.

Hmmm... made sence to me

Master Vigil, that almost sounds Buddhist to me.... Again I'll ask, if one could answer:

Does a Taoist have to believe in god? I guess more-so, does a Taoist view the Tao as a "being"... a god... a diety?

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by Francine

The stream, too, is at the bottom of the spiritual ladder. It seeks the lowest places. Valley floors, swamps, river bottoms, and finally the sea.

No, the stream is at the top of the proverbial spiritual ladder because it holds no attachments and is therefore light enough to climb the ladder. (Metaphorically speaking). You did not know of my "spiritual ladder" analogy and therefore misunderstood.

Humans are the opposite of the stream because we do not seek to be low, simple, humble, etc... Humans unlike the stream are worried about where we are going, and want to trudge our own path. We have stress, we have attachments, etc... But the stream however, has no care about where it's going, where it's been, or how it's getting there. But it gets there effortlessly. This is wu wei. This is what humans need help with.

To answer your question Comet, no Taoists do not need to believe in a god, deity, etc... The Tao is not a anthropomorphic being that has human attributes. But believing in anything is believing in Tao, because Tao is the encompassment of everything, nothing, in between, and any other words that don't exist.

[Somkid]

The original intention of the Tao was to be purely philosophical so in that sense no there are no spirits or anything of the kind. Taoism became a religion when it mixed with ancestor worship and it lost quite a bit of credibility. When Bodhidharma arrived in China bringing Buddhism he recognized the Tao in its original form as pure philosophy and it was infused into Buddhism.

Ch'an Buddhism and the Tao walk hand and hand till this day and the Tao is a big part of our study but as philosophy and wisdom not religion. There is a story (just a story because the time lines are way off to spite language differences and distance in the time period) but the story goes that the Tao was taken to the Buddha by Lao Tzu when he left China.