What is happiness? (Buddhism, Buddhism, taoism)

[idea]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Friend idea,

Originally Posted by zenzero

Just read your post and like to say that you have described happiness in the best manner through your experience.
That is fine.
What is important to understand is that when you are talking of happiness then the other pole or 8UNhappiness* too is created by default. Both are true and REAL. For a buddha it is to be in the middle not on either side of the pendulum. Life is like the swing of a pendulum between happiness and unhappiness and buddhas though they go through the motions in totality but do not identify themselves with either. They always remain in the middle when the pendulum is neither in the zone of happiness or unhappiness. That is BALANCE. That is when your karma does not have any carry forward as you are not accepting any results or rather not attached to either results be it good or bad.
That is what may be called a state of permanent bliss or happiness.
Love & rgds

I agree that opposites define one another – it is the theory of relativity, reference frames of a sort is needed for existence. Good, evil, happy, sad – these are all relative terms, and do not exist except in comparison to something else. No sad, no happy, no evil, no good. The LDS faith celebrates Adam and Eve eating the fruit for this reason. If they had not eaten the fruit, they would not have understood good, for there would have been no evil. God did not allow them to have children until they ate the fruit because they would not be able to teach their children anything without understanding good and evil. Here is a scripture out of the book of Moses:

Pearl of Great Price - Moses5
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters.


I do not however think that life has to remain in a pendulum state – once you fall and learn what evil is, if you can remember what it is, you do not have to keep falling. CS Lewis said something like:

“You know the strength of something
by standing up and fighting against it,
not by laying down and letting it overpower you.”

It is Jesus then – who was perfect and did not have any evil in him, who was able to stand up and fight against it all, that has the greatest understanding of what good and evil are. If you stay in the middle, you will not fully understand the depth of it all. You have to fully immerse yourself in one side or the other before you can gain a true understanding.


opposition in all things scripture: vs 2:11-16

We would say "let go of the natural man" to let go of desires and wants - thus becoming spiritually reborn - Not being attached I think is the same as saying leave it in God's hands, not my will but thine be done - God frees us from having to worry about it all. Sin would be trying to force our will ahead of Gods, best to just go with the flow, stop trying to control everything, and let God’s will reign. As God is the organizer, following His will is going with the natural flow. Anything else is going to be an unhappy fight. I think it is funny when people think Christians live restrictive lives – rules of how to live – it is not to confine you, but rather to point you in the direction of the natural flow of things. Buddhism / Taoism teaches to find the natural flow of things and go with it right? That is what Christians teach too.

Question - is balance to some times fight against the stream, some times to go with it, and other times to stand in the middle doing nothing? Or is a happy balanced life to just continually go with the flow? I have never heard a Buddihst teach anything but seeking to go with the flow... to "identify" themself with the natural flow, and not with their own will....

[zenzero]

Friend idea,
Yeah, thats good!
Not much differences.
Rgda being with the flow is what you say allow god's will.
That is exactly what is meant that being in the middle means not taking any sides. When one is in the flow he does not hold to any side for him both are fine and with both he is comfortable but not leaning to any one side stating this is good and the other bad. Both are equal at the same time am not attached with either, what ever happens I am in it with full conciousness but the mind remains un-attached.
You quoted CS Lweis but not any enlighetend man, however agree about not being overpowered bit. One can be overpowered when he gets swayed by any motion; going through the motion does not mean getting overpowered by it. If a strong man confronts me and asks me to hand over my purse, and I do it does not mean that my mind is overpowered by his it is only going with the flow at the same time keeping the mind un attached with the event.
Anyway by and by am sure we will find that we all talk the same things but only differently.
Love & rgds

[idea]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Friend idea,
Yeah, thats good!
Not much differences.
Rgda being with the flow is what you say allow god's will.
That is exactly what is meant that being in the middle means not taking any sides. When one is in the flow he does not hold to any side for him both are fine and with both he is comfortable but not leaning to any one side stating this is good and the other bad. Both are equal at the same time am not attached with either, what ever happens I am in it with full conciousness but the mind remains un-attached.

I agree - it is best not to get your heart set on anything, you start looking forward to an ice cream break, and then it doesn't happen... better to not have set your heart on it in the first place. You learn to take what life dishes, don’t count on anything, and you will not be disappointed. Pres. Hinckley's wife was asked how they were able to have such a good marriage, and she simply said "low expectations" - people laughed, but I don’t think it was meant as a joke. Being flexible with what life brings you – not forcing your choice of movie or restaurant on anyone etc… I agree with…

for this thread - happiness is low expectations.

There are times when you are forced to make a decision though –I hate those times – but you have to admit, occasionally it happens. Do you buy cuscus or rice at the grocery store? Which English translation of the Tao Te Ching do you give a friend? If you see someone getting hurt, you try to change the flow of things… When it comes to myself and what happens to me nothing really matters, but when it comes to the people around me and what happens to them, not that I would be a control freak or anything, their life is their own, but I can’t stand by and watch someone get hurt…

You put away your own will and carnal desires for yourself and instead live for something bigger than yourself, you live for others, for Love, for Jesus, for God, for me that is what erases personal wants and desires…

You quoted CS Lweis but not any enlighetend man, however agree about not being overpowered bit. One can be overpowered when he gets swayed by any motion; going through the motion does not mean getting overpowered by it. If a strong man confronts me and asks me to hand over my purse, and I do it does not mean that my mind is overpowered by his it is only going with the flow at the same time keeping the mind un attached with the event.

Forgive me, but do you keep your mind unattached if it is someone other than yourself who is being assaulted? Just stand by and ignore? The word ignorance comes from the word ignore...

Anyway by and by am sure we will find that we all talk the same things but only differently.
Love & rgds

It is good to be in agreement, but better to find something new...

Happiness is finding something new… rediscovering something old…

respectfully yours,
idea

[zenzero]

Friend idea,
The idea of finding something new may sound good and may be ego staisying that one is findng something NEW, BUT in reality there is nothing new but only new bottles.
About ignorance; when you know that what is happening had to happen to whomsoever it is happenning to you can only try and do your best in the circumstances BUT not try and change things so that it will never happen that is FOOLHARDY not ignorance.
Rgds hurting or not hurting others- people get hurt because of their own accord and has to eveolve and to that effect it is important that they learn to understand that what is been done is for universal good and not to plaese their ego.
Love & rgds

[TurkeyOnRye]

Just because someone is unattached doesn't mean they are going to do nothing when someone is getting hurt. That is far from the truth. Being unattached means that there is no attachment to the results of your actions or to what the world may bring you. If something needs to be done, you do it. If there's nothing you can do about it, don't let it foul your inner space through excessive thinking. Essentially, there are two things that you can choose to do in any situation: change it or accept it. If you can't change it, accept it anyway.

[DallasApple]

Happiness is fleeting..But its worth striving for...Its a hell of a lot better than "un-happiness"...

Also if you can experience joy of another...can make you happy too..

Love

Dallas

[zenzero]

Friend DallasApple,
You are right. *Happiness is fleeting*.
The question should have been * BLISS*. bliss is a permenent state and which is beyond happiness/sorrow pole. The pendulum swings and only at the extremes which is fleeting and momentary does one find happiness or sorrow.
Friend TurkeyOnRye,
You have hit the nail on the head about Change and Acceptance; however would like to add to its understanding. One may be instrumental in bringing about a Change but one should not identify *HIMSELF* as the doer. One is just a medium for things to happen like wood is the medium for fire similarly *Humans* are medium for Change. That way the individual remains unattached with any reactions of the action or the action itself. BUT since humans are evolving like everything still layers of unconcious remains and it certain situations due to those unconcious moments Change may not be possible and so by Accepting the situation One though remins attached but its results does not affect him as he had accpeted it in totality.
Love & rgds