TAO TE CHING - a study and UNDERSTANDING (paradise, experience)

[zenzero]

Friends,
From today an attempt will be made to study and discuss TAO TE CHING.
The smallest book having the deepest meaning of life. Understanding the 81 stanzas written by Lao Tzu itself one can rediscover the truth and live in paradise forever, which is our birth right.
The story of Loa Tzu writing Tao is also a very beautiful story in the history of human consciousness. It is said that Lao Tsu had achieved to truth and knew the futility of telling it to anyone but everyone including the emperor of the land [china] knew about his achievement Lao Tzu wanted to spend the rest of his lives meditating in the Himalayas. When he was on his way the emperor came to know about it and he immediately ordered his royal guards to catch him at the border and order his custom officials there to see that unless he writes down what he knows he will not be allowed to pass like paying customs duty on what he is carrying, 'knowledge.'

The result was TAO TE CHING.

Today we will take up the first stanza and the understanding here is mentioned below in red letters and within brackets. We shall go to the next when most doubts are cleared and most come to a similar UNDERSTANDING..

All readers are welcome to respond but not react and only in relation to the matter discussed so that we remain focused and proceed with a unanimous UNDERSTANDING.

1

The Tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
[Truth or TAO cannot be told it is experienced but that experience is unique as the individual does not remain an individual an ' I ' but becomes a part of the universal. The individual merges and becomes ONE.
Truth cannot be put into words and so cannot be spoken of and once something is said about it it does not remain the truth]


The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.
[TRUTH is eternal and cannot be named as naming it means the minds picturising it as a thing as is minds nature. No doubt we have thousands and thousands of gods each couloured according to the makers mind]


Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
[One can realize the truth by been free from desires; desires come from the mind and caught in the mind the mind will only give one its manifestations only and not the real picture. as explained above about the nature of the mind]


Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.
[Yet to realize the mystery as well as the root of all manifestations are but one, the mind/darkness/Satan. The mind is the key for all understandings. One has to realise truth through this same mind, there is no other WAY the doorway is the one and only the mind.]


Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.
[The gateway to realize truth is through this darkness; darkness upon darkness is the levels of the mind. The consciousness has to travel through the darker levels of sub-conscious, unconscious and Id. At the end of those layers light will enter and darkness will no loner be remain]

[Hema]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.
[The gateway to realize truth is through this darkness; darkness upon darkness is the levels of the mind. The consciousness has to travel through the darker levels of sub-conscious, unconscious and Id. At the end of those layers light will enter and darkness will no loner be remain]

Is this similar to the opening of the chakras to achieve enlightenment?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Hema

Is this similar to the opening of the chakras to achieve enlightenment?

As I understand it, sorta. I can see that as relating to the chakras, in that to be fully "awakened" one must confront the darker sides of the self (all aspects of the self) and overcome them.

[zenzero]

Friend,
Suggest try and understanding the lines instead of again allowing the mind to picturise. That is the biggest frontier as one has to overcome mind itself through which one can realise the truth. The nature of mind itself is such that it uses pictures to understand but actaully understanding comes when the mind is at rest and the understanding comes by itself without any effort.
Chakra and mind are different.
Mind has differnt layers which as mentioned are concious, unconcious, sub-concious and id.
As mind is akin to darkness the layers are darkness within darkness.
One has to be concious all the time and slowly the conciousness will clear all those layers of darkness and light/conciousness will remain.
As this conciousness travels the effect is the kundulini rising upwards through the chakras. Conciousness itself is ONE whereas if one goes by focusing on the chakras the duality may remain the self and the chakra.
from the begining if the self is not taken into account the begining of the jouney is an end in itself.
Love & rgds

[Scarlett Wampus]

The text in red seems about as useful an interpretation of the first chapter as I've seen. Slight contention in that I think "darkness within darkness" is suggesting that the layers of mind or whatever have no end. Subtle but important distinction between Buddhist notions of enlightenment and Taoist there.

[PureX]

I'm up for this thread, but it will have to wait until I get some errands done, today ... later.

[zenzero]

Scarlett,
That darkness is the mind is the understanding here.
If you have read or could bring out another aspect which has not come to the concious level; would be ahealthy sharing experince.
Simalarly all those travellers on any path/way could express their own understanding as we go along.
However we wait for PURE X to join in and further if any others have the no-mind to do so.
Love & rgds

[giant space amoeba]

A problem with the Tao Te Ching is that i find it very difficult to read. I prefer plain and simple texts but i have owned a copy (lent it to a freind and havent got it back!)and tried to understand but can only go so far (i have a small reading difficulty and find it hard to concentrate). Somebody has recommended the Tao of Pooh to make it easier, you think that would really help or do you recomend something else?

It's all very cryptic to me

[ChrisP]

Atomic Amoeba,

Click the link in my signature (Tao) and use the dropdown at the top to get to the S Mitchell translation.

It's a good place to start that won't leave your mind reeling from mystical incomprehensibilities.

I've never read the Tao of Pooh, but anything that has it's own t-shirt... follow my thinking?

PS. The lurker awakes... Hi guys *nods at Ollie and PureX*. I'll follow this thread in silence.

In truth I think analysis of the Tao te Ching is useless. Humans are incapable of true objectivity in their analytical state, and also Tao is a concept based upon understanding of current circumstance and the flow of such in any direction

Thankyou, please come again

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by Atomic Amoeba

A problem with the Tao Te Ching is that i find it very difficult to read. I prefer plain and simple texts but i have owned a copy (lent it to a freind and havent got it back!)and tried to understand but can only go so far (i have a small reading difficulty and find it hard to concentrate). Somebody has recommended the Tao of Pooh to make it easier, you think that would really help or do you recomend something else?

It's all very cryptic to me

Tao of Pooh. Meh. Its ok, its just a bit sterile in my opinion.

You could try this: Instead of trying to find the right interpretation of it, read the Tao Te Ching lightly. Let the words wash over you without bothering to figure out what they're meant to mean. I mean really, its more prose than it is precise philosophical treatise. I think its meant to be that way, its meant to appeal to feelings more than thoughts.