YAY, A TAOISM FORUM!!!!!!! (hell, pray, God, heaven, prayer)

[LeNinjaChic]

I understand what you are saying, however, being omnipotent is more than just being able to do something once. Even I can create something too heavy for me to lift. Let's say I create a building out of...oh...toothpicks. Eventually it will be too heavy for me to lift (if I were to keep going). Does that make me omnipotent in regard to my strength against the toothpick, until I've created such a beast? No. I was never omnipotent to begin with.

The very definition of omnipotent is having unlimited power and authority.

=o)

[LeNinjaChic]

Hey Runt, if you are truly interested, here is another thread on the topic (at another forum...I hope it's OK to post the link. If not, please remove it and I will accept the wet noodle lashing like a woman) :wink:

Another View of Omnipotence

[Runt]

I guess the question is whether or not an omnipotent God is powerful enough to undo his own omnipotence.

Even I can create something too heavy for me to lift. Let's say I create a building out of...oh...toothpicks. Eventually it will be too heavy for me to lift (if I were to keep going). Does that make me omnipotent in regard to my strength against the toothpick, until I've created such a beast? No. I was never omnipotent to begin with.

But that is precisely the point! You are NOT omnipotent, so it is in your very nature to be unable to do some things. However, an omnipotent God, by nature, should not be unable to do anything! And yet, being omnipotent and in CONTROL of nature, he should be able to change the nature of himself. So perhaps he makes it so that he is NOT omnipotent, and THEN creates the rock?

I hope it's OK to post the link. If not, please remove it and I will accept the wet noodle lashing like a woman

LOL, and I think links to other sites are allowed. No wet noodles today!

[Master Vigil]

The idea of god being able to create a rock that he is unable to lift contains a premise that is wrong. You miss the premise of omnipotence which means that no rock is too heavy, no rock is uncreatable, being omnipotent means that he can create anything and can lift anything. No matter how big it is. The premise of something being too heavy for him to lift is not relevant to omnipotence. Even if god created a rock that was maybe heavier for him to lift before, once he created it he would then be able to lift it just because of his omnipotence.

[Runt]

As I said in the "Trinity of Religious Contradiction" thread, I think we are asking the wrong question.

Old Question: "Can an omnipotent God create a rock too heavy for himself to lift?"

Answer: "Yes, because all he need do is change the nature of himself so that he is no longer omnipotent."

New Question: "Can an omnipotent God create a rock too heavy for himself to lift and still retain his omnipotence?"

Answer: "No, because an omnipotent God should be able to do ANYTHING."

It is the new question which proves the fallacy of the "omnipotent God" idea.

However, I was just nitpicking. I agree that the concept of an omnipotent God is ridiculous under any circumstances. It is the question that was wrong, not the concept of the impossibility of an omnipotent God.

[Master Vigil]

I understand. I was looking at it from the wrong angle.

[Runt]

LOL, and I think I keep explaining it badly, because that is twice that I've been told that people agree and only disagreed before because they were looking at the question from a different angle. I'm not even sure why I brought it up... when people don't notice that particular answer to the old question, then the question remains valid.

Haha, which proves that no question really proves anything, because there are infinite possible answers to every question--you just have to find them! :P

Even 2+2=X

It could be 4, 1, or "no solution" depending on which tradition of thinking you come from:

Two somethings plus two somethings equals four somethings

Two somethings and two more somethings are still all somethings and therefore there is only one something

Two somethings and two somethings are all one within the Tao so there is one something

Two somethings and two somethings are nothing because numbers do not exist except in our minds

Two somethings and two somethings are nothing because there is no such thing in as a whole number in nature because there are infinite numbers between every two numbers and therefore two doesn't exist and if two cannot exist then you can't add two to two to get anything

And so on...

[Master Vigil]

It shows that words only clutter the mind. A mind that understands completely without words, is an enlightened mind.

[LeNinjaChic]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

It shows that words only clutter the mind. A mind that understands completely without words, is an enlightened mind.

I have no words in response to this. Am I enlightened now? :

[Runt]

*wonders if she's about to hear "To fast!" and the sound of a staff smacking against the side of a head...*