Taoist idea of Wu Wei (beliefs, experience, Zen, taoism)

[Master Vigil]

"He" is anyone. Any man or woman who can clear their mind and truely know themselves. So basically in taoism, everyone has the ability to achieve enlightenment and live a peaceful life.

[dudley thoth]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

"He" is anyone. Any man or woman who can clear their mind and truely know themselves. So basically in taoism, everyone has the ability to achieve enlightenment and live a peaceful life.

Fair Dooz.

I was reading it from a purely Christian perspective.

[Master Vigil]

Its hard to look at and understand Taoism unless you get rid of words and persepctives. Western logic cannot be used, nor can christian ideas. A popular zen koan... a student went to visit a master to learn zen, after the student arrived the master started pouring tea for him. he kept pouring and pouring until it was overflowing. The sudent finally interjected "stop!, no more can go into that cup!" The master then said "indeed, so too you must first empty your mind, before it can be filled with zen."

And once you empty your mind, and understand yourself, than you realize that the Tao is beyond words and perspectives as well. And this is where enlightenment begins.

[dudley thoth]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Its hard to look at and understand Taoism unless you get rid of words and persepctives. Western logic cannot be used, nor can christian ideas. A popular zen koan... a student went to visit a master to learn zen, after the student arrived the master started pouring tea for him. he kept pouring and pouring until it was overflowing. The sudent finally interjected "stop!, no more can go into that cup!" The master then said "indeed, so too you must first empty your mind, before it can be filled with zen."

And once you empty your mind, and understand yourself, than you realize that the Tao is beyond words and perspectives as well. And this is where enlightenment begins.

Return to the uncarved block, eh?

Can you share a bit more with me about the 'Tea ceremony'?

What's the nature of the drink itself?

[dudley thoth]

[/quote]Can you share a bit more with me about the 'Tea ceremony'[quote]

Joseph Campbell has this to offer.

"Then, if in preparing, serving, and drinking, every phase of the action is rendered in such a gracefully functional manner that all present may take joy in it, the common affair might well be said to have been elevated to the status of a poem. And, in fact, in the writing of a sonnet, words are used that are quite normal, secular, common day tools. Just as in poetry, so in tea: certain rules and manners have been developed as a consequence of ages of experience; and through a mastery of these, immensely heightened powers of expression are achieved. For as art imitates nature in its manner of operation, so does tea. The manner of nature is spontaneity, but at the same time orginization. Nature is not for the most part mere protoplasm. And the more complex the orginization, the greater is the manifestation of the range and force of the spontineity." ('Oriental', 1962/2000, p.504)

[dudley thoth]

he kept pouring and pouring until it was overflowing. The sudent finally interjected "stop!, no more can go into that cup!" The master then said "indeed, so too you must first empty your mind, before it can be filled with zen."

Just a thought, but must the student empty himself to the point of attaining boundless capacity?

[Master Vigil]

once one achieves boundless capacity, one achieves enlightenment. to learn of zen, or the tao, one only needs to clear the mind of its anxieties.

A student went to his master and asked "why must we meditate?" The master took him outside, filled a bucket with water, and put it under the moon. Then he quickly ran his finger back and forth through the water. He then asked the student "what do you see?" The student said "ribbons of light." Than the master said "wait until the water calms down." After the water was still and calm he asked again "what do you see?" And the student then said... "I see the moon."

[dudley thoth]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

once one achieves boundless capacity, one achieves enlightenment. to learn of zen, or the tao, one only needs to clear the mind of its anxieties.

A student went to his master and asked "why must we meditate?" The master took him outside, filled a bucket with water, and put it under the moon. Then he quickly ran his finger back and forth through the water. He then asked the student "what do you see?" The student said "ribbons of light." Than the master said "wait until the water calms down." After the water was still and calm he asked again "what do you see?" And the student then said... "I see the moon."

According to taoism, does agitation cause division?

[Master Vigil]

If what I think you are referring to is right, then agitation divides the self from the natural flow of chi, or from the natural Tao and eternal Tao. But does not make us apart from it. The best way to put it is agitation disrupts balance, which in turn disrupts chi. So agitation would be very much avoided in order to live in peace and balance.

[Runt]

Joseph Campbell has this to offer.

I liked that quote. The analogy between action (pouring tea) and poetry hits deep. Being a dancer, I can understand that movement and poetry have much in common, but Campbell's words really offered a new perspective... kind of a "Why" to the action, rather than a "how", if that makes any sense.

For me, dance is meditation. I can go for a long time, not thinking at all, and then suddenly realize that I'm in the studio (or on stage, or in the basement), drenched in sweat, muscles aching, but feel so relaxed and content. I'm just learning to achieve the same state when doing martial arts.

Is "pouring tea" a form of meditation?