The Three. (translation, hell, mercy, philosophy, religion)

[ChrisP]

Hey all. Have been comparing several translations of the Tao Te Ching recently, and not wanting to exclude people like Sunstone and Michel (Known in the Chrispy house as "Mr. Eclectic") not to not mention our Buddhist and Vedic friends, who can often liven up such discussion, I thought the comparative Religion Forum would be the best place for this.

Originally Posted by KPR

I have three priceless treasures:
The first is Compassion
the second, thrift

And the third is that I never want to be ahead of you.

If I have compassion, you will die for me. I know that.
If I waste nothing, I can give myself to you all -
And if I don't seem perfect, then you'll trust me to lead you.

Originally Posted by S. Mitchell

I have just three things to teach:
simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and in thoughts,
you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.

Originally Posted by John Wu

I have Three Treasures, which I hold fast and watch
over closely. The first is Mercy. The second is Frugality.
The third is Not Daring to Be First in the World. Because
I am merciful, therefore I can be brave. Because I am
frugal, therefore I can be generous. Because I dare not
be first, therefore I can be the chief of all vessels.

If a man wants to be brave without first being
merciful, generous without first being frugal, a leader
without first wishing to follow, he is only courting
death!

Originally Posted by Gia Fu-Beng

I have three treasures which I hold and keep.
The first is mercy; the second is economy;
The third is daring not to be ahead of others.
From mercy comes courage; from economy comes generosity;
From humility comes leadership.

In particular, I'm looking at the three "pillars" or "treasures" of Taoism and they way the various translations imply intention in our everyday attitudes.

Compassion/Mercy, Thrift/simplicity, Humility/patience.

Besides compassion (which we already covered in Sunstone's thread last month) there seems to be a good variety of linguistic interpretation of these character attributes that are Tao.


Has anyone here had a go at translating this passage?



How do you see thrift and simplicity in this context? Are they similar?



Is leadership (in a guiding sense) an essence of Tao? Does it lead without showing in this way?


What are your thoughts on the attributes/idea/intentions being described (what do they mean to you)?



Kwok Palmer Ramsay Translation : http://www.terebess.hu/english/tao/ramsay.html#Kap67

S. Mitchell Translation : http://www.terebess.hu/english/tao/mitchell.html#Kap67

John Wu Translation : http://www.terebess.hu/english/tao/wu.html#Kap67

Gia Fu-Beng translation : http://www.terebess.hu/english/tao/gia.html#Kap67

[Feathers in Hair]

*gasps as she reads* That is so beautiful. It may take me awhile to articulate my thoughts, but I'm working on it!

[ChrisP]

Shameless Bump.

[Feathers in Hair]

Well, if you get to shamelessly bump, I get to shamelessly avoid the questions that I'm completly incapable of answering!

Originally Posted by ChrisP

How do you see thrift and simplicity in this context? Are they similar?

I see simplicity as choosing thrift over the hoarding of things, so I percieve them as being similar. I haven't studied the Tao enough to be familiar with it in that sense, however.

Is leadership (in a guiding sense) an essence of Tao? Does it lead without showing in this way?

I believe it does. It illuminates the path ahead, but doesn't give a smack across one's back to move ahead. This ability seems to provoke the reaction of self-motivation in the traveller of such a path.

What are your thoughts on the attributes/idea/intentions being described (what do they mean to you)?

I think I've got a lot to learn from the path of simplicity. Whether intentionally or not, I tend to celebrate the other attributes a lot in my daily life. (They are too wonderful not to!) It's about time that I pursued the worth of a related path.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Was thinking about this thread all day today. Got a bit of a shock lately to discover that meditation expert intellectual genius Ken Wilber is an abusive cult guru and seems to have become the antithesis of what his own philosophy is meant to encourage. I think I've lost touch too. Pseudo-intellectualism has begun to eat away at my spirit so its time to move on, or rather, its time to go back to basics with penitence (I feel like a wretch right now) & renewed commitment.

ChrisP I'm certain being mindful of compassion, humility and simplicity in all things works out. It would be hard to go wrong doing that but very easy to get mislead if they're forgotten. If I think about it whenever I'm messing up its always the case that one or more of those are lacking in what I'm doing. When I'm doing ok they're present.

[ChrisP]

Hehe... I think I need that Pseudo-intellectualism quote as my sig... there are more than a few Yanks on this board who'd do well to bear that in mind.