The Danger(s) of Taoist Mysticism (ritual, beliefs, soul, experience)

[Scarlett Wampus]

I came across what I'm posting below from Raymond Sigrist's website on Apophatic mysticism and Taoism. I thought it was interesting and important enough to post here for people to read. One of the things that I found curious about it is that most of religion is generally about expressing and reassuring the personality, not breaking it down and transforming it. Raymond Sigrist seems to be firmly focused on the rarer mystical side of religion. Anyway, here it is: -

Utter vulnerability: the mystic's treasure

Utter vulnerability is the apophatic's treasure; and it is source of danger in the practice of apophaticism.

The apophatic path is vulnerable to the distinct possibility of meaninglessness. The spotless clarity which results from the surrender of all ideation allows the apophatic to attain transparent awareness. Within this sublime awareness the mystic experiences the pure quality of being here. This experience is called the "numinous" or the "mystical state."

Paradoxically the clarity of the apophatic experience reaches its full intensity just inside the edge of meaninglessness. Beyond that edge is catastrophe.

The dangers of mystical practice

Be sure to ask your god to warn you how fast she's moving before you pray for help getting on board - Carla Ansantina

The hazards of mystical practice stem from the fact that the personality must be broken down and then put back together in a more effective pattern. Obviously if the reconstruction is not successful the individual gets into serious trouble; he or she may not be ready for the high levels of volatility and rapidly changing mental landscapes that are associated with the indefinite ego boundaries of the mystical state.

...

Yu: Caution

"Cautious indeed, as if in winter crossing the river."
Lao Zi, Chapter Fifteen

Taoism, like the magic door in the Hermann Hesse book Steppenwolf, is an "entrance not for everybody." And for those who enter, movement inside is to be done gingerly. The ego is a very thin skin, but for most of us it is better than no skin at all. After Zhuang Zi's self-image was injured at the magpie incident in the forest, he was depressed for three days. (ZZ20) The ego is a feeble but practical way to protect the self, and Taoism can be an ego-bruising journey and much worse. When you nearly completely eliminate your ego, you lose one of the primary tools you have used to organize reality. Such a loss can easily cause extreme psychological, and even physical, vertigo.

Those of us who attempt the twisting trail that takes one further and further away from the values and structures that our native cultures have instilled into our psyche, occasionally, or more often, fall on our faces. The old familiar safeguards for reality-testing have vanished. At these times, we may question whether we have only succeeded in constructing a singular illusion. Have we merely invented a personal fairy tale to replace the tribal dogmas that our forebears gave us to help us confront the often frightening world we inhabit? At critical points in our journey, the new spiritual world we have discovered and founded our faith in, can begin to have an insipid taste, start to crumble, and soon grave doubts loom over us. We may experience "the dark night of the soul" described by St. John of the Cross.

It was good of John to warn of such psychic events, for this warning has helped many who have fallen into an unexpected chasm. One is sometimes able to begin climbing out merely by realizing what has happened. Lao Zi speaks of the abyss (Yuan) that is the progenitor of all beings. (LZ4) Zhuang Zi compares the adept's skill to the corpse-like stillness of a dragon waiting in the soundless abyss (Yuan mo). (ZZ11) The abyss describes the psyche emptied of its entire collection of learned preconceptions; the more emptying, the more deeply one penetrates into a mysterious darkness. It is upon this completed emptiness/openness that the new foundation of a sovereign psychic world would be grounded. And herein lies the danger. If someone disassembles all his conventional beliefs and does not yet have the fortitude, daring, and enough luck to be able to construct his own autonomous reality, he has fallen into a potentially lethal abyss.

Eva Wong writes about and practices Taoism; she says "The spiritual landscape is both attractive and forbidding, and travelers need to be aware of hazards along the way." (EW:P2) When I used to read such warnings, I suspected it might be a ploy to make the subject more enticing. But I have come to understand that releasing the Pandora's box of a soul's ingredients can be a mixed blessing, especially when one is not ego intact. When the government of a mind is overturned there is a release of enough unchanneled qi to severely destabilize life.

To work outside normal consciousness, out beyond the rigid structure of personality that one has innocently built for oneself, is to step on a surface that is exceedingly fluid. Its creative potential is vast, but this surface is too thin to support the needs of the normal human psyche. A break with the world as you know it can ruin your whole day.

The Taoist keeps one foot walking in the conventional world while the other foot is stepping within a chasm of unlimited opportunity and danger. This split footing paradoxically provides both the coherency and stability needed for walking amidst a landscape of endlessly creative volatility.

[MysticSang'ha]

Such important points, SW. It's good to be reminded of the unimaginable consequences of extinguishing the ego.




These points of consideration further support the necessity of having a guru, IMO. Someone who has "been there, done that" to better guide the novice who is stepping into the void.




Peace,
Mystic

[michel]

Is there honestly a danger to Taoist Mystics ?

[ChrisP]

A danger to their state of mind yes. Along the lines of Descartes (I use him, cause I think you've spoken of him before)...

Basically it stems from meaning. Meaning is selfsupporting, just as all of the universe is self-supporting... once the support is removed (which to some extent can be the result of philosophical Taoist thinking)... well I hope you get the idea... I need some explaining training or something...

Hope that helps anyway

[MysticSang'ha]

Perhaps not in the supernatural sense, Michel, where demons grab your soul and confine it in a spiritual prison or something.




There is a danger, however, of insanity or being stuck in a solitary, ego-less state in meditation. Whether or not these legends are true, stories are told of Tibetan monks and nuns who wander off into the mountains, go into deep meditation, and simply remain in a static meditative state for hundreds of years. Their bodies are preserved without any signs of deterioration, so they do not die, but they do not grow, learn, or interact with other beings from that point on. These stories are taught as warnings of where the path of esoteric studies and meditation can lead you if you are not mindful, and they truly are frightening.




Not sure how appropriate the Tibetan stories are in a Taoist thread, but I see similarities.




Peace,
Mystic

[michel]

Ouch; thank you!

[Scarlett Wampus]

Very appropriate similarities MysticSang'ha

Even if someone does not have a particular Guru there will be countless people and/or books that have helped them. Despite its personal nature I can't imagine a spiritual life without some form of feedback and advice from others who have gone before, and their help in finding a way out when falling into 'trouble'.

[PureX]

I still see this as a confusion between taoism, and other religions, or perhaps between taoism as a religion, and taoism as a philosophy.

One of the reasons that I'm drawn to taoism (at least philosophical taoism) is that it's not about attempting to 'transcend' oneself. In fact, this idea of transcendence is where I draw my own line between myself and religious Christianity, as well. I'm not interested in transcending my humanness. I'm not interested in being something other than what I am. On the contrary, I'm interested in being more fully myself, flaws, sins, ignorance, and all. I'm interested in accepting who and what I am as an equally necessary and valuable manifestation of the Divine Mystery as is everything and everyone else. I'm not looking for "Nirvana", I'm not looking to be "cleansed of my sins" so I can be Righteous, I'm not looking to ascend into heaven and sit at the right hand of God, I'm not looking to become a saint and perform miracles, or to live forever, or to know all that there is to know, or to do whatever else it is that all our various religious fantasies promise us.

All I'm hoping for is to rid myself of at least some of my self-delusions, so that I can see myself a little more as I really am, as opposed to who I think I am, and then be able to respond to life accordingly. I believe that