More Excerpts From Chuang Tzu (Earth, mystic, heaven, taoism)

[michel]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

If you didn't feel hopeless at explaining then chances are you would be less aware of Tao. I mean, who does not feel stupid & confused when it comes to this 'stuff'? From my pov your last two posts showed an intuitively/instinctually rooted understanding of Li, Te and Wu Wei. All fundamental principles (but only vaguely defined) of Taoist 'stuff'.

I agree; he is 'on the ball'; he seems to have an instinctive understanding.

[the_Unknown]

When 'nature' is refered to as the Tao, they don't mean nature as in stuff that is outside or the opposite of what is modern.

What they mean by nature, is the nature of reality (and non-reality).

Reality has invisible rules for manifestation from which all things spring forth - the primal essence of ying and yang.

When a taoist notes a particular characteristic of an animal or thing, he is pointing out how that adaptive feature is helpful in that particular instance.

However, particular animals are not masters of the Tao- otherwise why would they become extinct so often and not be able to adapt to new changes in their environment?

'Masters' of the Tao are able to adapt to any sitation, not merely one instance.

They see the invisible strings of cause and effect - the true Tao.

In those examples, they are simply saying, be effective - be like which ever animal the circumstance fits - be 'natural' or be everything that is and is not.

[the_Unknown]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

Terrible

The writings of Chuang Tzu and Lao Tzu both reveal nothing of Taoism.

Those passages imho are showing that by watching our environment we can achieve understanding of how everything moves together. This is Taoism.

PS. sorry I've been neglecting this forum lately. I've been tied up. But she let me go.

The writings of Chang Tzu, Lao Tzu, or whoever reveal as much of the Tao as anything does.

You experience the environment you are a part of regardless of your choice to do so or not.

The Tao is everything and nothing - you see it all the time, there is nothing paricular to watch for.

-------------------------------------------------

The true Tao will reveal itself when there are no thoughts of it.

It is the nature of the Tao is to fill whatever is empty.

[anders]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

English is a bad language for multiple images/meanings in one sentence and it is for this reason I'd reccomend reading at least three different translations of the Tao te Ching.

Several versions at http://www.edepot.com/taoblank.html and 100+ translations of chapter 1 here .