Differences between Taoism and Buddhism (ritual, mystic, tradition, beliefs)

[Scarlett Wampus]

Since differences have been hinted at in various threads I thought it might be interesting to bring this question to the fore: There are many ways in which they are similar or can simply mesh together but what are the differences between Taoism (in general) and Buddhism (in general)? And...why are they significant?

[Scarlett Wampus]

To kick off Taoism has no clearly stated central principles. This might be because the word Tao was used by diverse Chinese mystics/thinkers long before the Tao Te Ching & Chuang Tzu, and those books themselves led to a kind of language skepticism amongst Taoists strongly influenced by them. Buddhism's principles are highly structured and the written tradition started with and can be traced back to Sakyamuni Buddha.

[PureX]

I'm not that familiar with Biddhism, and anyway, I'm sure there are many different sects of Buddhism with differing ideals and goals. But I would think that the main difference between taoism and Buddhism is that Buddhism is based on living in a way that will achieve a specific (ultimate) spiritual goal. Taoism, however, at least philosophical taoism, is not about achieving a spiritual goal. Taoism is more about immediate authenticity.

Also, it seems to me that Buddhism, like most religions, is concerned with becoming more than one is at the moment; of "bettering" one's self. While taoism is not much concerned with value judgments at all.

The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.

The Tao is like a bellows:
it is empty yet infinitely capable.
The more you use it, the more it produces;
the more you talk of it, the less you understand.

Hold on to the center.

- from the Tao Te Ching

[Scarlett Wampus]

Yes PureX, thats certainly true of the early Tao-Chia (School of the Way) familiar to us through the works of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. Later all sorts of different sects with specific spiritual goals came to be associated with Taoism (the search for immortality for instance). Because Taoism came to represent such a wide and varying collection of beliefs and traditions it tends to be thought of as a Pantheist religion. As far as I'm aware the four noble truths of Buddhism are pretty much shared by all sects of Buddhism. Its hard to see what some Taoist sects shared!

[Master Vigil]

The biggest difference I have found, (and this is between buddhism and philosophical taoism) is ritual. I'm not a very ritualistic person, which is why I favor Taoism. But buddhism is a very ritualistic practice.

[Scarlett Wampus]

This would be a major difference: The emphasis on wordly existence being inherently unsatisfactory in Buddhism. Taoist thought (I'm thinking Tao-Chia in particular) doesn't suggest that it isn't but it doesn't suggest that it is either. The emphasis is on bringing about harmony and peace to worldly existence, not transcending it. Later Taoist writings go in for transcendence, but even they mostly describe transcendent states as still being-in-the-world unless they have been combined with Buddhist thought.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

The biggest difference I have found, (and this is between buddhism and philosophical taoism) is ritual. I'm not a very ritualistic person, which is why I favor Taoism. But buddhism is a very ritualistic practice.

Yep Buddhism certainly can be ritualistic, not necessarily so but often. Tao-Chia wasn't in the least bit ritualistic and both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu considered it a little crazy if not downright useless. In some Tao-Chiao sects ritual is considered absolutely fundamental, but I suspect splitting up Taoism into Tao-Chia and Tao-Chiao is not going to do much for this thread except confuse things so I'll stop doing that.

[d.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

I suspect splitting up Taoism into Tao-Chia and Tao-Chiao is not going to do much for this thread except confuse things so I'll stop doing that.

i think it'd clarify things, actually. since there's no followers of tao-chiao or 'religious taoists' on these forums as far as i know (if so, apologies), isn't it really tao-chia people are talking about?

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by divine

i think it'd clarify things, actually. since there's no followers of tao-chiao or 'religious taoists' on these forums as far as i know (if so, apologies), isn't it really tao-chia people are talking about?

Yes it is. Ok, this is going to give me a bit of a headache but here goes. To clarify: -

Tao-Chia
A philosophical school of thought that is well known through the Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu. Evocative and mystical rather than dogmatic it emphasises keeping an open/empty mind, humility, simplicity, reverence of nature, apophasis, freedom from desire and adaptability to circumstances. Generally speaking this is what is known as Taoism in the West.

Tao-Chiao
A whole host of religious sects whose traditions include influences from Taoism, local folklore, Confucianism and Buddhism. They have hierarchical structures, strict moral teachings and practice rituals and ceremonies. Beliefs of these sects covers an enormous number of things. For example: the after-life, a large pantheon of Gods, divine revelation, salvation, a form of karma, ghosts & spirits, etc.

During the hsuan-hsueh (Mysterious Learning) revival of Taoist thought Tao-Chiao began to take form and spread very quickly. What remained as the classical/scholarly Tao-Chia was then later mostly absorbed into Buddhism with the emergence of Chan (Chinese Zen) as a notable result. In my opinion the worldwide popularity of translations of the Tao Te Ching could start a second revival of Tao-Chia.

edit: If there was any confusion it was mine by bringing up religious Taoism in response to PureX. Whoops! Sorry