Pronunciations (America, Roman)

[windcarver]

I was just wondering how to pronounce some taoist words, because I honestly have no idea how, and if I ever have to say one of them out loud, I want to say them right.

Lao - Tzu
Chuang - Tzu
Te
Ching (in context with I Ching or Tao Te Ching)
Ch'i
Confucious (not really taoist, but I don't know how to pronounce his name either)

Thanks!

[evearael]

The problem is that the various dialects of Chinese pronounce words differently. Also, the pinyin that the characters are transliterated to is extremely poor at conveying the pronounciation to someone without familiarity with it. In addition, Chinese is has four different tones and they completely change the meaning of the word. My best advice is to seek out a native speaker.

[windcarver]

Originally Posted by evearael

My best advice is to seek out a native speaker.

how? I've never met a native chinese speaker before ...

[evearael]

Well, I have no idea then. I remember how to pronounce the names in Mandarin, but I've forgotten the tones. It's been too long... I'll let you know if I bump into any good resources for you. Is there a university near you with an Asian Studies department?

[Scarlett Wampus]

Laow dzu/dze
Ju-ung dzu/dze
De
Jing (Yi Jing - Dao De Jing)
Qi/Chi

The thing is, if you hear someone who speaks Mandarin pronounce these words the phonics they use can be quite different to what we're used to in Europe and the Americas. Unless you are learning Mandarin or know someone who speaks it there is little you can do but be a bit off.

edit: sorry everael, I didn't see your posts because I took so long on the post screen after the topic was started. You obviously know more about this than me, so it looks rude that I would just cut in like that.

[Master Vigil]

My microphone recording abilities have suddenly seem to stop working. So perhaps tomorrow I will record how I've been taught to say them. I'm not sure which dialect my taoist master is, so I can't be too specific. But it's probably mandarin because we say Tai Chi Chuan, which is mandarin (I think).

[anders]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

My microphone recording abilities have suddenly seem to stop working. So perhaps tomorrow I will record how I've been taught to say them. I'm not sure which dialect my taoist master is, so I can't be too specific. But it's probably mandarin because we say Tai Chi Chuan, which is mandarin (I think).

Writing Tao Te Ching or Dao De Jing, it still refers to the same pronunciation. Which one? As has been pointed out, it can be a case of which dialect or which Chinese language. Tai Chi Chuan in Pinyin romanization will be Tai Qi Quan.

If you hear the initial of Tao/Dao as some kind of 't' or some kind of 'd' depends on your native language. If I hadn't studied Chinese, I would perhaps have guessed 50/50 t-d; a Dane would say 'd' and a German 't'. And don't ask me about tones. Swedish is a tonal language (surprise? we and Norwegians have 2, but Chinese has from some three to perhaps seven different tones), but I have as much difficulties as my fellow man to get the Chinese tones right.

And Confucius is a Latinized form of Kong Zi (less frequently, Kong Fuzi). More details on his names at Wikipedia.

[d.]

i wouldn't worry so much about getting the pronounciation exactly right, as long as you can make yourself understood.

most languages 'modify' the pronounciations and/or spellings of foreign names and words to make them easier to pronounce anyway - as in the case of the aforementioned confucius, or dostojevskij (dostoyevsky) or why not the only swedish loanword i know of in the english language - 'smörgåsbord' (smorgasbord).

[windcarver]

Originally Posted by evearael

Well, I have no idea then. I remember how to pronounce the names in Mandarin, but I've forgotten the tones. It's been too long... I'll let you know if I bump into any good resources for you. Is there a university near you with an Asian Studies department?

Well, the Univerity of Toronto has one, and its only about two hours away. So then you're saying I should contact the department and ask them? That could work!