Personifications of Tao (elder)

[the_Unknown]

There are many stories.

The less unique they are,
the more real they are.

Immortality is omnipresent truth.

It is mortality that is an illusion.

Like shadows casted by reality.

Completely insubstantial.

Ying and Yang are always in balance.

The desire for imbalance,
causes you to deulde yourself.

You say, "I love this imbalance"
and admit to loving an illusion.

When asked who you are,
you say, "I am what I love"
and admit to being an illusion.

So you lie to yourself,
and create the illusion of mortality.

[munchkin]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

Kinda. Their legends are all so unique. I mean, you have a laughing fat man, a love-sick flute player, a great shaman who lost his body so possessed a dead beggar, a compassionate waif, a scholar/alchemist who kept screwing up (my avatar), a cross-dressing fortune teller and singer, a wise bat that decided to incarnate as a human and liked riding around on a cheeky donkey, and even a reformed criminal rich man!

All of them were flawed characters and there was a strong element of chance (or you could say natural humility) in their becoming immortal.

great thread scarlet
I see it in my dog Jessica alot, not many people.
i also like the tales of the Taosit immortals, wise funny, odd,

beccax

[the_Unknown]

If you think you see the tao 'more' or 'less' in anything,
then you aren't seeing the tao.

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by the_Unknown

If you think you see the tao 'more' or 'less' in anything,
then you aren't seeing the tao.

While I partially agree with you, in effect the Tao is everything and nothing... According the Lao Tzu, Tao can be known through nature, and things that follow the natural "Way". Thus we can see the Tao more or less in things that follow the Tao (natural way) more or less than others.

Also, the question was not about us seeing Tao... but of us seeing those that are like Tao.

[PureX]

It's part of the Tao of Man to deny and ignore the Tao. It's part of the Tao of Man to be superstitious and to anthropomorphize and "spiritualize" objects and events. It's part of the Tao of Man to be Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, or atheistic.

Taoism isn't about gods, or ideologies, or superstitions. Yet human beings are often about these things. It's part of the Tao of Mankind to be so. For me, the opening question of this thread is nonsensical, because all that exists is an expression of the Tao, whether we recognize this or not. And our "recognition" is an illusion of knowing the moment we claim it (I realize that this statement is a paradox).

The only way to ask the question that the opening poster is trying to ask, is in silence.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by the_Unknown

If you think you see the tao 'more' or 'less' in anything,
then you aren't seeing the tao.

Yeh, the kind of things we're talking/thinking about have no relevance to Tao in the context that you are using the word. Thats because practising something like that Zen koan style negation of meaning is different to the kind of experiences the majority of posts in this thread are referring to. I've stated the completely obvious, ugh. What I'm trying to say is, Unknown its getting to sound a little preachy.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by PureX

The only way to ask the question that the opening poster is trying to ask, is in silence.

Well all the time I'm not posting ridiculous questions consider me asking in silence.

[the_Unknown]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

While I partially agree with you, in effect the Tao is everything and nothing... According the Lao Tzu, Tao can be known through nature, and things that follow the natural "Way". Thus we can see the Tao more or less in things that follow the Tao (natural way) more or less than others.

Also, the question was not about us seeing Tao... but of us seeing those that are like Tao.

The Tao IS everything and nothing.

The tao cannot be followed.

It is not measurable - it is infinte.

The natural way is THE ONLY WAY.

As reality is bound by nature.

You have no choice to be born or to die.

You have no choice to exist.

You have no choice to follow the Tao or not.

Choice is an illusion.

All things crumble into dust.

Yet, they are forever.

Between everything,
even these words,
is the Tao.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Unknown that was a good post. Yeah, the significance of the way is that it can't be defined as having qualities (sort of what you have been saying really). As Li Daoqun said, "The Tao is utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes". So, saying we have no choice or have choice, is besides the point (that doesn't mean to say its not a valid point when put into context). The point being pointless is perhaps one way of trying to say what you've been trying to draw attention to. I am very much agreement with this.

Now, that is a particular element of Taoist philosophy/experience, but Taoism is also all sorts of things to all sorts of people. When people talk about animals and nature being more 'Tao' it might be nonsensical if Tao has to be mean "utterly open", but even still we know what we mean since it tallies with our personal experience. Its that simple. Chuang Tzu summed this up when he said, "Words are for catching impressions; once you've caught the impression, its best to forget the words. Where can I find a person who knows how to forget about words so that I can have a few words with him?" I too want to talk about things, but if everytime someone says Tao it has to be strictly confined as "not this, not that" then nothing can be said. This is impractical! Do you see where I'm coming from?

[munchkin]

Well a Taoists master once said to me, that the Tao was indeed in all things and the messages of Tao coudl be seen in all things, both positive things and negative things.

Is the message of Tao in War? yes, is the message of Tao in peace? yes.

The only thing stopping us from feeling the messages of the way of nature in all things is ourselves, once we open our inner self to Tao then we will know. until then it is all dust in the wind. *************

a very wise conversation, on his part.

beccax