Imagination and Greed. (God, testament)

[mr.guy]

Please stay on topic. The question is: why are human's the only creatures with sufficient intellect to distance themselves so from the Tao.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that this intellectual distance from the Tao was a taoist "fact"; is it so?

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by Jensa

I'd say the level when we start to second-guess everything we want to do. Thinking things through is fine and a good thing to do, but running in circles over ifs and mights (which a lot of humans seem to do... I know I do at times!) goes against the natural flow of things.

Maybe I'm just proving your point regarding running in circles, but : So why only us?

[Jaymes]

No, this is merely my opinion.

EDIT: Sorry, CP, posted before I saw your reply.

Maybe I'm just proving your point regarding running in circles, but : So why only us?

This is where my thoughts diverge from Taoist leanings and go into evolutionary ones. If you'd like me to share them I will, but they'd probably be more at home in the evolution vs. creationism forum.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by Jensa

This is where my thoughts diverge from Taoist leanings and go into evolutionary ones. If you'd like me to share them I will, but they'd probably be more at home in the evolution vs. creationism forum.

I'd like to hear them!

I used to believe that we'd gone wrong somewhere, needed to identify where, and heal to start over. I got that from how I interpreted Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, it also reflected the general attitude of several people I admired back-in-the-day and my own state of mind. Now I'm not so sure at all.

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

I realise there are other creatures with abilities of this manner, but why is it that they do not possess the same desire to make monuments to our greatness? Create art of beauty, make war?

When I meditate on this, I again go out and watch the birds of the air. And in their simplicity they are happy. And then I look at humans, and in their complexity they are unhappy.

What I'm trying to say is, they don't do those things because they don't need to. That is why they are fantastic Taoists. Lao Tzu said, in filling a cup... best to know when it is full. We as humans are at the bottom of the spiritual ladder of understanding (so to speak). I say this because we have too much weighing us down. Once we learn to drop things (like our attachment to our intelligence, our attachment to our superiority, our attachment to our free will, etc...) then we will be light enough to climb the ladder.

So let us not look at it as "why do they not possess the same", and look at it as "how can we drop these possessions".

Wow, I hope that made sense.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Yes it makes sense.

In my opinion this power we have to affect change in the world because of our intelligence and imagination, that probably is something to do with the existential angst behind many of our misadventures. We haven't lost the ability to tune into Tao FM though. I suspect the potential we have to manifest Tao has barely been scratched. What we could be collectively capable of if we learnt to 'untangle the knot'...!

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

When I meditate on this, I again go out and watch the birds of the air. And in their simplicity they are happy. And then I look at humans, and in their complexity they are unhappy.

What I'm trying to say is, they don't do those things because they don't need to. That is why they are fantastic Taoists. Lao Tzu said, in filling a cup... best to know when it is full. We as humans are at the bottom of the spiritual ladder of understanding (so to speak). I say this because we have too much weighing us down. Once we learn to drop things (like our attachment to our intelligence, our attachment to our superiority, our attachment to our free will, etc...) then we will be light enough to climb the ladder.

So let us not look at it as "why do they not possess the same", and look at it as "how can we drop these possessions".

Wow, I hope that made sense.

I hear your point, and I definitely understand what you're saying. But then all my question does is reverse. Why are we (apparently) the only species with these possessions (whether they be helpful or impeding)?

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

Yes it makes sense.

In my opinion this power we have to affect change in the world because of our intelligence and imagination, that probably is something to do with the existential angst behind many of our misadventures. We haven't lost the ability to tune into Tao FM though. I suspect the potential we have to manifest Tao has barely been scratched. What we could be collectively capable of if we learnt to 'untangle the knot'...!

Again like M_V I hear your point of view, and understand you.

However I agree with M_V's point regarding the nature of things that are already part of the Tao such as plants and animals. This to me is the ultimate good. Whether it be becoming one with theTao, buddhist Enlightenment or Greek Gnosis.

I'm guessing this is unanswerable but : What do you think there is for human's to be "collectively capable" of a majority began to understand the way of things?