shia (followers, prophet, God, muslims, islam)

[yousaf]

what do you think shia are? muslims or non muslims

[not4me]

Generally speaking, Muslims insha' Allah!

[yirme]

theoretically, they are followers of islam. but the actions of each person who claims to be shia would better tell whether or not they, on an individual level, submit to the will of God.

peace

[TashaN]

Many sunni scholars have issues with Shi'a scholars because they believe that the shi'a scholars are misleading the shi'a followers, and even they said of they are not muslims. Nevertheless, when it comes to the shi'as as individuals, they are muslims inshAllah.

[Peace]

They are Muslims.

[AbuQuteiba]

Their scholars are kuffaar. Concerning the general masses, of the rawaafidh (shee'a), if proof is established (to them) that they are upon baatil (falsehood), then they are no longer Muslim, Wallaahu a'lam.

To understand this, one must first understand that in Islaam, innovations are categorized into two categories. Bid'ah mukaffirah (an innovation that expels one from Islaam) and bid'ah muffassiqah (an innovation that leads to transgression). An example of a bid'ah mukkafirah is tawaaf (circumambulation) around other than the Ka'bah, or the du'aa' (supplication) of other than Allaah. And an example of a bid'ah mufassiqah, is celebrating the Prophet's (sallaa Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) birthday.

The raafidha (shee'a), are upon so many bida' mukkafirah, it's not even funny. Some of them are:
-they believe the Qur'aan is not yet complete
-they believe the sahaaba are kuffaar, or fussaaq (transgressors) depending on the sect.
-they believe that the mothers of the believers, like 'Aaisha (radhiyalllaahu 'anhaa) are zaaniyat (fornicators)
-they have their own Hajj (pilgrimage) to Karbalaa'
-they believe that Abu Bakr (radhiyallaahu 'anhu) unjustly took the khilaafa from 'Ali (radhiyalllaahu 'anhu).

And much more. Wallaahul musta'aan. Wallaahu a'lam.

[yirme]

Originally Posted by AbuQuteiba

Their scholars are kuffaar.

peace,
this is a great example of something that would be highly frowned upon in islam.
to wrongly call someone a kaffir makes you a kaffir. if any shia scholar is not a kaffir (and there are many who are not), then you have just become a kaffir, if you were not already. may God forgive you.

wa salaam

[yousaf]

a scholar of shia is normally aperson who understands the beliefs of shias and teaches them. a person who teaches wrong beliefs . under normal circumstances teaches against sunnis thhey are called kaafirs , so abu qutaiba is right in what he said and you are right in some parts of what you said

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by yirme

peace,
this is a great example of something that would be highly frowned upon in islam.
to wrongly call someone a kaffir makes you a kaffir. if any shia scholar is not a kaffir (and there are many who are not), then you have just become a kaffir, if you were not already. may God forgive you.

wa salaam

When the late Sheikh Muhammed ibn 'Uthaymeen-rahimahu Allaah- was asked about the shi'a, if they were Muslim, he said: "Their scholars, are not. The general masses are, inshaa'Allaah". Some scholars believe that all shi'a are kuffaar, based on their opinion that proof has been established to the whole shi'i community that what they are upon, is falsehood.

It was stupid of me to mention that, in my first post, as if i was the one to give that ruling.

Masha'Allaah. The Prophet-salla Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam- said: "Whosoever accuses another of kufr, kufr shall fall upon one of them". This hadeeth has been explained by the scholars, Walhamdulillaah. To call another a kaafir, you must first establish three things:

1. If what you accuse the other person of is actually kufr (as in, the act itself must be proven to be kufr from the Qur'an, or Sunnah)
2. If the other person has in fact committed this kufr.
3. If the persom you accused of committing kufr has knowledge (has been told) that the act he is committing is kufr.

When speaking of the shi'i scholars, all three conditions are confirmed. And unless you know of a shi'i scholar who doesn't confirm the main shi'i beliefs, you should remain silent concerning who is and who is not kaafir.

May Allaah forgive you, as well as myself.

Wassalaamu 'alaikum.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by yousaf

a scholar of shia is normally aperson who understands the beliefs of shias and teaches them. a person who teaches wrong beliefs . under normal circumstances teaches against sunnis thhey are called kaafirs , so abu qutaiba is right in what he said and you are right in some parts of what you said

Teaching against the Sunnah, or teaching wrong beliefs, isn't always enough to call someone a kaafir. The three points i mentioned, in my response, must be established first. Wallaahu a'lam.