Rumi and his poetry (rituals, mysticism, soul, choice, doctrine)

[robtex]

Quick confession. I was turned onto Rumi by a fellow atheist that lives in Austin. I found this site long ago:
http://www.khamush.com/

and wanted to make a Rumi thread!!!!

What I would love to do is post a Rumi poem talk about it and than have someone else post one. However, being a non-muslim and non-believer, I thought I would wait and let another post the first poem

[robtex]

http://www.khamush.com/love_poems.html#Ode%20314

Ode 314 (above link) is one of my favorites. I have always felt that religion that don't propogate love and affection to those around you are useless and this poem by suggesting those who can't find love in the god they believe in makes sense to me.

[Sunstone]

Ode 314

Those who don't feel this Love
pulling them like a river,
those who don't drink dawn
like a cup of spring water
or take in sunset like supper,
those who don't want to change,
let them sleep.
This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
I you want to improve your mind that way,
sleep on.
I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.
If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you,
and sleep.


I think Rumi is also saying here that we should not impose mysticism on those who want to approach deity through theology, doctrines, and such. Or, am I misunderstanding the poem?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Ode 314

Those who don't feel this Love
pulling them like a river,
those who don't drink dawn
like a cup of spring water
or take in sunset like supper,
those who don't want to change,
let them sleep.
This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
I you want to improve your mind that way,
sleep on.
I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.
If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you,
and sleep.


I think Rumi is also saying here that we should not impose mysticism on those who want to approach deity through theology, doctrines, and such. Or, am I misunderstanding the poem?

Oh, I think he's criticizing theology etc. here, comparing them to sleep as opposed drinking dawn and supping on a sunset, they are trickery and hypocrisy! But he is saying that it is one's choice and can't be forced by another.

This is a timely thread...going to copy that ode into my Seven Valley's thread for comparison since we're in the Valley of Love. Thank you!

[robtex]

Remember me.


I will be with you in the grave
on the night you leave behind
your shop and your family.
When you hear my soft voice
echoing in your tomb,
you will realize
that you were never hidden from my eyes.
I am the pure awareness within your heart,
with you during joy and celebration,
suffering and despair.
On that strange and fateful night
you will hear a familar voice --
you'll be rescued from the fangs of snakes
and the searing sting of scorpions.
The euphoria of love will sweep over your grave;
it will bring wine and friends, candles and food.
When the light of realization dawns,
shouting and upheaval
will rise up from the graves!
The dust of ages will be stirred
by the cities of ecstasy,
by the banging of drums,
by the clamor of revolt!
Dead bodies will tear off their shrouds
and stuff their ears in fright--
What use are the senses and the ears
before the blast of that Trumpet?
Look and you will see my form
whether you are looking at yourself
or toward that noise and confusion.
Don't be blurry-eyed,
See me clearly-
See my beauty without the old eyes of delusion.
Beware! Beware!
Don't mistake me for this human form.
The soul is not obscured by forms.
Even if it were wrapped in a hundred folds of felt
the rays of the soul's light
would still shine through.
Beat the drum,
Follow the minstrels of the city.
It's a day of renewal
when every young man
walks boldly on the path of love.
Had everyone sought God
Instead of crumbs and copper coins
T'hey would not be sitting on the edge of the moat
in darkness and regret.
What kind of gossip-house
have you opened in our city?
Close your lips
and shine on the world
like loving sunlight.
Shine like the Sun of Tabriz rising in the East.
Shine like the star of victory.
Shine like the whole universe is yours!



http://www.khamush.com/life&death.htm

[robtex]

I think on this one he is affirming that the emotional output of man is one of the senses and the most appropiate one for being intune with God. Than he presents the idea that there is no death but continual life and that if you follow the emotion of love you will find Allah and be in his company. I think the blurry eyed reference is using the 5 senses to find what he feels can only be found with the emotion of love. Beat the drums might mean prayer drums.

[Djamila]

I love Rumi, I absolutely adore him. I went to Konya, in Turkey, specifically to see what he saw and experience the city he experienced.

In Ode 314, the message I get is substance over ritual. To me, he is saying you can be the perfect Muslim, by the books of faith and culture, and still completely miss the point of what Islam is. He is saying... allow yourself to be overwhelmed by what God has given us, and be a Muslim not by simply blindly going through the rituals, but by experiencing what it all means.

In Remember me my impression is that he is speaking as someone who has already died, and knows God, and is explaining to the others what to expect. It's like... he's reached enlightenment and now he's trying to find the words to pass this experience from something that cannot really be described down into the human realm. It's like a four-year-olds drawing of their mother, and he's so excited but you just can't possibly understand what he has experienced just through his words, because there are no tools to make it accurate.

[robtex]

Mila that is a great interpretation!! I can't give you frubals until I spread some love so you'll have to take a raincheck (slang for frubals at later time), but can you pull up one poem and talk about it?