Salvation, when? (Jesus, ritual, punishment, Earth, choice) - Page 3

sojourner · #21 08-02-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutshell

What more is there for any of us to do? You're kidding right? We are commanded to "be ye perfect." Christ set the perfect example for us and we must strive to do all that he did.

Herein lies the undermining of the gospel. We are commanded to be perfect. But it is impossible for us to be perfect. Therefore, grace is made available to cover the imperfection. If it were possible for us to become perfect by our own devices, we would not need grace. If grace is what brings perfection, then we have nothing to worry about, because grace has already made us perfect.

Biblically, salvation is not based upon our works.

Mystic-als · #22 08-03-2006, 01:04 AM

sojourner - frubals!!!
For

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojourner

Biblically, salvation is not based upon our works.

nutshell · #23 08-03-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojourner

Herein lies the undermining of the gospel. We are commanded to be perfect. But it is impossible for us to be perfect. Therefore, grace is made available to cover the imperfection. If it were possible for us to become perfect by our own devices, we would not need grace. If grace is what brings perfection, then we have nothing to worry about, because grace has already made us perfect.

Biblically, salvation is not based upon our works.

You may be surprised, but I agree with most of your post. I know we cannot become perfect and it's only through grace that we will be made perfect, but in the mean time, we need to do all we can, striving for the perfection we're commanded to achieve.

Mystic-als · #24 08-07-2006, 12:20 AM

nutshell - That is true. Grace is not some excuse to do whatever we want. We must strive to be perfect. And this theme you migh find in more than christianity. A search for enlightenment if you will.

sojourner · #25 09-21-2006, 11:04 AM

I think we need to be very careful about our motivations for doing what we do. Our works are reactive, not proactive. We do good works beacuse that's our proper reaction to finding ourselves in a state of grace. We do not do good works in order to win grace for ourselves. In this reactive stance, we strive to make our persona fit our identity, that is, if we are identified as being in a state of grace, we should live as if we are in a state of grace.

writer · #26 09-21-2006, 01:53 PM

1 When we make a desision to follow him are we "saved" at that moment or is it when we get baptised?
Both.
Rm 10:9-14. Mk 16:16. Ac 2:21. Ac 8

Katzpur · #27 09-21-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

I was reading about Jesus and his calling in life.
So I wondered. When we make a desision to follow him are we "saved" at that moment or is it when we get baptised?

I used to think it's when I made the choice. But seeing that God only called Jesus "son" after Jesus' baptism it must only be after baptism.
I'm not trying to debate the issue. I just want different opinions. If you can please give me some scripture or why you think that way.

The Bible states that "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." To me that says that salvation is not a one-time event, but a process. I believe that once we make the decision to follow Christ and are baptized, thereby entering into a covenant relationship with Him, we have an immediate promise of future salvation, provided we remain faithful. But if we fail to live up to the commitment we make to Him, salvation (or at least the fulness of salvation, which may be another topic entirely) will not be ours.

sojourner · #28 09-22-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The Bible states that "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." To me that says that salvation is not a one-time event, but a process. I believe that once we make the decision to follow Christ and are baptized, thereby entering into a covenant relationship with Him, we have an immediate promise of future salvation, provided we remain faithful. But if we fail to live up to the commitment we make to Him, salvation (or at least the fulness of salvation, which may be another topic entirely) will not be ours.

I respectfully disagree with this part of your post. "Failing" to "live up to a commitment" is an act-based dynamic -- not present in the process of salvation. That dynamic makes salvation a trophy to be won or lost -- a "contest" -- not a gift that is freely given to us.
If such is the case, how do we quantify "living up to our commitment?" How much "good works" is enough? How little is deemed "too little?"

Turning salvation into a "numbers game" is futile, since spiritual matters are not quantifiable.