My Heretical Theory (Jesus, ritual, moral, Earth, Messiah)

[The Panentheist]

I'm a Christian, but my spiritual theories might strike some as odd or even heretical, but as many of them as possible are rooted in either Biblical or historical ideas. One such theory of mine in my view on the concept of "Salvation".

Let me start from the beginning of the issue. All that follows, unless otherwise specified, is theoretical.

God created humanity, Biblically symbolized by Adam and Eve. We were pure and moral beings at the time, close to God in spirit, but God realized that we were weak of spirit and ignorant of the nature of things, and thus he feared that we would not achieve the potential he'd mapped out for us. Thus he removed our immortality, seperated good and evil within us, gave us physical forms, and placed us on the Earth with the hopes that we would learn and grow and become the children he'd hoped for. It was as if we were young children leaving the safety of the nursery to go to school.

Thus, we're seperated from God and live our lives, not out of our inherant badness and rebelliousness (after all, could a perfect God make beings so easily swayed when in a supposedly perfect state?), but out of God's desire to perfect us.

Under this premise, our lives should be spent learning, growing, gaining experience, living morally, and helping others. Now we throw in an ancient concept called Theosis.

If you aren't familiar with Theosis, Theosis is a process, by which we become "like God." This doesn't mean we become God, but merely become divine. Connecting the dots, I see Theosis as a method by which we reattain the immortality, moral perfection, and harmony with God that we lost long ago. To achieve Theosis, we must learn and grow enough, and live as morally as possible, and thus, through personal effort, we "save" ourselves and join God in spirit.

Now we'll include Jesus in the picture. I've said in another post that I considered Jesus to be a mortal man, but a wise man who lived a good life and helped many people. It is my belief that, through his good life, Jesus achieved Theosis and thus BECAME divine, rising from mortal man to the place reserved for us at God's side. By living a Christ-like life, I think we all can achieve Theosis and earn our birthright.

The word Christ is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew "messiah", which means "annointed one." Annointed with what? The spirit of God. Jesus became at one with God's spirit, and we all can do the same. We all should strive to become "Christ", not as in becoming Jesus, but annointed with God's spirit like Jesus was...completely man and, by Theosis, completely divine, like Jesus was.

This may seem far-fetched, but, in my subjective eyes, it works. It's unconventional, sure, and perhaps heretical, by the reckoning of some. I'm still developing this theory, and filling in holes. Any support, suggestions, constructive questions, or even criticism (from which I can improve my theory) would be greatly appreciated.

[evearael]

You may want to consider interweaving verses about Enoch... Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, for God took him away."

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by The Panentheist

I'm a Christian, but my spiritual theories might strike some as odd or even heretical, but as many of them as possible are rooted in either Biblical or historical ideas. One such theory of mine in my view on the concept of "Salvation".

Let me start from the beginning of the issue. All that follows, unless otherwise specified, is theoretical.

God created humanity, Biblically symbolized by Adam and Eve. We were pure and moral beings at the time, close to God in spirit, but God realized that we were weak of spirit and ignorant of the nature of things, and thus he feared that we would not achieve the potential he'd mapped out for us. Thus he removed our immortality, seperated good and evil within us, gave us physical forms, and placed us on the Earth with the hopes that we would learn and grow and become the children he'd hoped for. It was as if we were young children leaving the safety of the nursery to go to school.

Thus, we're seperated from God and live our lives, not out of our inherant badness and rebelliousness (after all, could a perfect God make beings so easily swayed when in a supposedly perfect state?), but out of God's desire to perfect us.

Under this premise, our lives should be spent learning, growing, gaining experience, living morally, and helping others. Now we throw in an ancient concept called Theosis.

If you aren't familiar with Theosis, Theosis is a process, by which we become "like God." This doesn't mean we become God, but merely become divine. Connecting the dots, I see Theosis as a method by which we reattain the immortality, moral perfection, and harmony with God that we lost long ago. To achieve Theosis, we must learn and grow enough, and live as morally as possible, and thus, through personal effort, we "save" ourselves and join God in spirit.

Now we'll include Jesus in the picture. I've said in another post that I considered Jesus to be a mortal man, but a wise man who lived a good life and helped many people. It is my belief that, through his good life, Jesus achieved Theosis and thus BECAME divine, rising from mortal man to the place reserved for us at God's side. By living a Christ-like life, I think we all can achieve Theosis and earn our birthright.

The word Christ is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew "messiah", which means "annointed one." Annointed with what? The spirit of God. Jesus became at one with God's spirit, and we all can do the same. We all should strive to become "Christ", not as in becoming Jesus, but annointed with God's spirit like Jesus was...completely man and, by Theosis, completely divine, like Jesus was.

This may seem far-fetched, but, in my subjective eyes, it works. It's unconventional, sure, and perhaps heretical, by the reckoning of some. I'm still developing this theory, and filling in holes. Any support, suggestions, constructive questions, or even criticism (from which I can improve my theory) would be greatly appreciated.

It is heretical, especially the highlighted part.

But you're not alone, several people on this site hold different beliefs to the orthodox. My personal beliefs are similar to several of your beliefs

[michel]

Originally Posted by The Panentheist

I'm a Christian, but my spiritual theories might strike some as odd or even heretical, but as many of them as possible are rooted in either Biblical or historical ideas. One such theory of mine in my view on the concept of "Salvation".

.

God realized that we were weak of spirit and ignorant of nature of things, and thus he feared that we would not achieve the potential he'd mapped out for us. Thus he removed our immortality, seperated good and evil within us, gave us physical forms, and placed us on the Earth with the hopes that we would learn and grow and become the children he'd hoped for.

Thus, we're seperated from God and live our lives, not out of our inherant badness and rebelliousness (after all, could a perfect God make beings so easily swayed when in a supposedly perfect state?), but out of God's desire to perfect us.

Under this premise, our lives should be spent learning, growing, gaining experience, living morally, and helping others. Now we throw in an ancient concept called Theosis.

If you aren't familiar with Theosis, Theosis is a process, by which we become "like God." This doesn't mean we become God, but merely become divine. Connecting the dots, I see Theosis as a method by which we reattain the immortality, moral perfection, and harmony with God that we lost long ago. To achieve Theosis, we must learn and grow enough, and live as morally as possible, and thus, through personal effort, we "save" ourselves and join God in spirit.

Now we'll include Jesus in the picture. I've said in another post that I considered Jesus to be a mortal man, but a wise man who lived a good life and helped many people. It is my belief that, through his good life, Jesus achieved Theosis and thus BECAME divine, rising from mortal man to the place reserved for us at God's side. By living a Christ-like life, I think we all can achieve Theosis and earn our birthright.

Christ is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew "messiah", which means "annointed one." Annointed with what? The spirit of God. Jesus became at one with God's spirit, and we all can do the same. We all should strive to become Christ, annointed with God's spirit like Jesus was...completely man and, by Theosis, completely divine, like Jesus was.

If that is heresy, call me a heretic.

"God realized that we were weak of spirit and ignorant of nature of things, and thus he feared that we would not achieve the potential he'd mapped out for us"

I am not sure that God did actually 'map out a potential' for us, but the rest of what you wrote (which I have quoted) is pretty much what I believe.

Add to that reincarnation, and it would seem as if our beliefs are pretty much paralllel. I believe that Jesu Christ's incarnation here was the last one before he 're-joined God forever', which is what I believe we will all do at some time - ie when we have become 'perfect enough'.

As far as my deviation from yours (in believing in reincarnation is concerned), the logic behind the idea is that there is no way that we humans can be put through every test possible (to qualify for God-likeness) in one incarnation; my other reasons are because of what I would call strong indication that there is reincarnation.

[The Panentheist]

Wow, I've gotten more positive responses than I imagined. I was expecting a burning cross in my yard by dawn. Thanks for the suggestion, Evearael. And I've thought along those lines, too, Michel. I've considered reincarnation as well, thinking, like you, that such a measure would be needed for us to learn what we needed to learn. I merely avoided reincarnation due to lack of Biblical or historical support, though it makes more sense, assuming that everything else we've thought is accurate. And about the "mapping potential" thing; I only meant that I think God has a plan for us, beyond this life we live now, as Romans 8:18-22 seems to imply.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by The Panentheist

Wow, I've gotten more positive responses than I imagined. I was expecting a burning cross in my yard by dawn.

We're not that kind of forum.

[Mike182]

you've got heretical beliefs...... let's not delve into mine then

parts of your theories are things ive not conciderd before, you have me intruiged! i hope you decide to stick around for a bit, i would be interested in hearing your oppinion on many of the discussions and debates we have going at the moment

mike.

[angellous_evangellous]

It's heretical in total as it stands, no emphasis on human sin nor the role of Christ. What you've proposed cannot be called Christianity, but rather a humanistic Gnosticism.

[Jeremiah61]

As for Jesus being merely a "wise man," one would have to disregard such passages as-

John 1:1-14
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."

John 15:1-4
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Hebrews 1:8
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom."

So the question is, if Jesus were a mere man, what of these statements?

Thus, we're seperated from God and live our lives, not out of our inherant badness and rebelliousness (after all, could a perfect God make beings so easily swayed when in a supposedly perfect state?), but out of God's desire to perfect us.

How could Adam and Eve have been perfect if not given the oppurtunity to be imperfect? Which is of greater worth, to be good because it is all one can do, or to be good because one chooses to be. The greater the potential for virtue, the greater the potential for vice. If Adam and Eve were not given the oppurtunity to sin, how could they have been perfect; they would have simply been automatons. Of course God knew what would happen if they used their freedom the wrong way: apparently He thought it worth the risk.

In regards to God seperating us from Himself for our perfection, and not for our transgressions, is it not written-
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

No offense intended in above statements, ite?

[Jeremiah61]

As C.S. Lewis one put it, regarding Christ's deity-

"Among these Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says He is coming to judge the world at the end of time. Now let us get this clear. Among Pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God: there would be nothing very odd about it. But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside of the world, who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips."

To say the Christ only a moral teacher is preposterous. A "moral teacher" would not have said the kind of things Jesus said.