Technology is making capitalism obsolete (evolution, America, service, science)

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

That's very cool. If you don't mind me asking, how much money did it take to set up ScubaForum and get a steady flow of visitors? I imagine nothing comparable to the cost of having a full shop.

The cost to set up any forum is minimal: $250 for the software and $100/month will get you started. Getting USERS is another matter. I brought www.ScubaBoard.com into a commercial venture about 1.5 years after we had accumulated over 3,000 registered users. We are now approaching 90,000 and over a million uniques each and every month. But, I am the anomaly to the traditional scuba business.

The "LDS" (Local Dive Shop) has traditionally used training as a loss leader for equipment sales. This kept the price of instruction low and equipment HIGH. With the advent of the i-tailers such as Scuba Gear and Scuba Diving Equipment - Discount dive gear, Scuba.com Diving Portal - Buy Scuba Gear & Scuba Diving Equipment among others, this simply does not work. Internet savvy consumers are buying more and more on line so that the shops have to raise the price of instruction or go out of business. 11 shops have closed here in the Orlando area within the last 18 months. Unfortunately, due to the internet, this does not equate into better sales for the remaining LDSes. If they could figure out how to do air fills over the internet, the LDS would truly be a thing of the past.

[Random]

...certainly so. But not @ a rate rapid enough for me. Libertarian Socialism is the future.

[Luke_17:2]

I realize this is libs only, but there's a question I want to ask;

Has anyone heard the concept of technocracy?

Because that's what this sounds like. Not exactly socialism, but not capitalism either.

[Scuba Pete]

As we are in the "information age", I think that the term technocracy applies nicely. After all, the RICHEST person in the world is none other than Bill Gates. He might be argued to be the most powerful as well since he holds us hostage with his operating system.

[PureX]

Technology is not the answer. As Ani DiFranco says: "every tool's a weapon, if you hold it right". And the same is true of technology.

The battle here is the same battle that has been taking place for all time, among all human societies. It's the battle between individual desires and the collective good. Technology is just another weapon that is being employed in this never-ending battle.

The solution, at this time and place in history, is in one of the most amazing and astonishing breakthrough's in human thought, of all time, and that's the idea of constitutional democracy - a balance of power, and of rights and responsibilities, based on the established ideal of equal freedom and justice for all. Unfortunately, the United States was mankind's first real attempt at this, and the constitutional outline we started with was way too vague and sketchy to survive the inexhaustibly persistent assault of individual greed at work. And as a result it has basically been ripped apart and discarded. We pretend it's still sacred and sacrosanct here in the U.S., but in reality it's pretty much useless, and the government is now itself ungoverned, which means that greed runs amok, as it always will when men aren't made to follow higher ideals.

However, there are other constitutional democracies in the world that have been formed since that first attempt in the U.S. and they have some advantages. They are smaller, and therefor more easily adapted to change, and they have written for themselves more specific constitutions with more clearly specified rights and freedoms, which are more difficult for the politicians to circumvent in pursuit of their own personal desires.

And this IS the answer, right in front of our faces. I suspect that it's hopeless to imagine that the Unites States could ever seriously re-write it's own constitution so as to plug the gaping holes in it, as the very people who would be authorizing the re-writing are the same people that we need the constitution to protect us against. And so they will naturally re-write it to give themselves even more wealth and power, which will destroy the nation completely. So sad to say, I hold out little hope of the U.S. avoiding it's own inevitable collapse. But as new nations form, they can use the more successful models of constitutional democracy as blueprints for their own, and each time a new one is written, it will hopefully advance the cause of democratic self-rule to cover the specific changes in human conditions, and the clever tactics of individual greed.

I am hoping that the ideal of self-rule, as expressed in the world's various constitutional democracies, will evolve and be perfected through use, over time. And eventually the proper balance will be discovered and struck, between individual desire and collective well-being, and the people living under such a balance will be able to recognize and respect the advantages of doing so enough to maintain it properly. And at that point, we will se that our individual desires will be served by maintaining the well-being of the collective. And we will finally have achieved a real workable method of living together.

Unfortunately, you and I probably will not live to see it. But if we do what we can to promote it, now, maybe our grandchildren will.

[Fluffy]

Technology can also result in socialism in a variety of other interesting ways:

• Mechanical/Cybernetic/Nanotechnical/Genetical enhancements to humanity resulting in a reduction of diversity of ability.
• Potentially exponential increase in resources resulting in unlimited supply
• Potential huge advancements in communications and computing power resulting in an infrastructure capable of supporting global and beyond systems as well as direct democracy.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

I realize this is libs only, but there's a question I want to ask;

Has anyone heard the concept of technocracy?

Because that's what this sounds like. Not exactly socialism, but not capitalism either.

You are correct. A "technocrat" is a retired politician who works for the Scientific Elite.

AL Gore is an example...Global Warming? Bush Snr. is a technocrat.

There are many other examples. It is all liked to the esoteric and the occult.

Dig deep, and find out.

[GeneCosta]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

I realize this is libs only, but there's a question I want to ask;

Has anyone heard the concept of technocracy?

Because that's what this sounds like. Not exactly socialism, but not capitalism either.

Yeah, I have. Technocracy is an interesting idea, or tool rather. Over the years many of the elements developed by the original technocracy movement have been incorporated into the socialist theory, like energy credits and sustainable regions. Of course the two have always shared similar ideas. The only major difference, other than technocrats arguing that their system is simply a tool and socialists arguing theirs is an ideology, is the structure of society. Socialists want the people to be the sole authority. Technocrats want the people to decide what and the best leaders in the industry to decide how. This difference of opinion will probably have to be resolved for there to be an understanding between the two groups.I would argue the people can spot the best amongst themselves and elevate them to the highest positions as recallable delegates, but technocrats believe the best system is having the workers nominate people and then the level above them choosing from there.