reincarnation. (soul, evolution, hell, heaven, religions)

[zenzero]

frined suraj,
Know that you know much more on the subject than you wrote.
Just was trying to bring out the differnces in writing by different people. Mostly we all mean the same but speak differently due to our perceptions.
As Jesus never spoke of reincarnation can I accept that he did not know about it? No surely he did since his training was in sanatan dharma but his target audience and his time limit to et them across to his line of thoughts kept his speech limited to certain aspect like buddha as they all wanted each individual to atleast have a taste of that space to understand the other things on its own to draw conclusions.
Cheer up! You are worth much more. Your Rig veda still needs postings.
Love & rgds

[ax0547]

Suraj - according to hinduism is karma to be done to attian liberation in afterlife or during this life time?

[Suraj]

Ax, karmas do not lead to liberation. If you perform an action, due to the law of causality(karmic law) that action will have an effect. This effect could either be positive or negative and it could be active or dormant. As soon as we perform an action it leaves a residue in the mind(samkaras) and then that like a seed germinates in the unconscious. This effect can be felt in this life or the next life, sometimes the karma can remain dormant for several lifetimes, it only manifests when it is triggered by a suitable environment. An example could be suppose you have a really bad experience at a certain place, this leaves a residue karma in your mind. Now, suppose for a few years you have forgotten about that bad experience. The karma remains dormant for these few years. However, you may visit that place again, and all of a sudden the karma is active again.

Another case could be you cause somebody harm in the past, let us say you hurt someone really bad by saying something to them. The karma you perform leaves a residue which enters your unconscious. It may lay dormant for a few years, but actually that seed is germinating in your unconscious, the karma may eventually cause you to end up bumping into that person again after several years. It may seem like a coincidence, but actually it is determined by your past karmas.

Another type of karma is that which determines the outcomes in your life. Some people seem to have all the luck, this is not random chance convergence, they genuinely do have good luck because of good karmas in the past. They may have been very charitable in their earlier years, and later on they get an unexpected inheritance worth a fortune.

At death, the breath detaches from the body, and the mind detaches from the breath and it takes its karmas with it. However, as long as it has unfulfilled karmas they create vasanas(desires) and long as it has desires it cannot be liberated from the cycle of birth and death. It can only fulfill those desires through a body, and therefore again it reincarnates. The kind of body it reincarates in, which time and place and the kind of life is all determined by the past karmas.

It does not matter which karmas you do, whether they are charity or theft, you will continue to reincarnate over and over again. The only difference is if you did good actions you will lead a relatively better life than if you did bad actions. The only way to become liberated is to reach a state of desirelessness. As soon as you have no desires left, you will merge into the supreme being. The only way to do this is through Yoga. In Sikhism this is through Bhakti Yoga, absolute devotion to god and always uttering his name(Sat Naam, Waheguru) so you allow yourself to become the instrument of god's will losing all sense of egoity and desire. In this state you will do good things like charity, service, teaching others, but you will not create any karmas, because you are simply doing his will. This is why Arjuna did not incur any bad karma when he carried out the will of Lord Krishna, despite engaging in murder and deceit. As soon as you surrender your 'I' to god, you become free of causality.

[ax0547]

well certainly I beg to differ - Have you ever read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and actually understood the meaning or have you just read some explaining book? from where did you posses the knwoledge about what Sikhism teaches in the mater of reincarnation?

[zenzero]

Friend ax,
Since it appears that you have understood the Sri Guru Granth Sahib; kindly do share your knowledge about it.
Please do remember that Sikhism has branched out of Sanatan Dharma and so the basic teachings does not differ; however as even there exists differences between two identical leaves there are bound to be differences here too; which we would like to share with us in context of its development as a seperate identity.
Love & rgds

[Suraj]

I have actually read the Guru Granth Sahib and other Sikh texts, so I have directly learned about Sikhism from there. It's not very different from Hinduism, even the concepts are the same:

Here are external and secular sources on Sikh views on reincarnation

Reincarnation: They believe in samsara (the repetitive cycle of birth, life and death), karma (the accumulated sum of one's good and bad deeds, and reincarnationthe belief of a rebirth following death. These beliefs are similar to Hinduism.
Source: Religious tolerance.com

Sikh beliefs are an interesting expansion on Hindu and Muslim ideas. Like Hindus, Sikhs believe in Dharma, (the law of Karma) reincarnation, and Samsara (the Hindu cycle of life and death).
Source: About.com

[ax0547]

So are you punjabi. do you poses the Sri Guru Granth Sahib - where did you learn about the meaning - I know very well about these general websites. Please let me know.

[zenzero]

Friend Ax,
The jouney to God is internal and agree with friend Suraj that in Sikhism it is through *Bhakti Yoga* that one merges with Wahe Guru.
If bhakti yoga does not suit someone there are N number of Ways which are possible depending with one is comfortable with. In today's scenarios where everyone appears to be intellectuals and want to do anything after understanding it through the Mind then surely *Gyan yoga* should be most suited.
What PATH / WAY suits you?
Love & rgds

[Suraj]

There is an excellent translation of the Guru Granth Sahib available online. I am not sure why you are disputing that Sikhs believe in reincarnation, the Guru Granth Sahib is full of them: Please take a look yourself:

Those who are in love with duality forget You. The ignorant, self-willed manmukhs re consigned to reincarnation. || 2 || Those who are pleasing to the One Lord enshrine the Lord within their minds. Through the Guru's Teachings, they are absorbed in the Lord's Name. || 3 ||

|| 1 || Pause || In doubt he comes, and in doubt he goes. This world is born out of the love of duality. The self-willed manmukh does not remember the Lord; he continues coming and going in reincarnation. || 2 ||

Pg 160, Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Amar Das

Those whose hearts are filled with the love of duality, do not love the Gurmukhs. They come and go, and wander in reincarnation; even in their dreams, they find no peace. They practice falsehood and they speak falsehood; attached to falsehood, they become false. The love of Maya is total pain; in pain they perish, and in pain they cry out. O Nanak, there can be no union between the love of worldliness and the love of the Lord, no matter how much everyone may desire it.

Pg 316, Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Arjuna Dev

This is near completely identical with Hindu concepts of reincarnation, samsara and Karma. In fact the Guru Granth Sahib is not very different on the whole from Hinduism.

[zenzero]

Friend Suraj,
Thanks for those quotes, they are beautiful.
None can have have doubts of Sikhism being much different from Sanatan Dharma; if some have surely they are misplaced. When the roots are the same there cannot be basic differences similar to Buddhism or Jainism whose roots are from Sanatan Dharma rather prefer to state that they are all branches of sanatan dharma which is open ended and allows branches to grow.
Love & rgds