Shi'ism foundation based on Judaism (reject, Moses, blood, mission)

[baseeji]

thats nice!

what problems?

[Nehustan]

Well tell me if I'm wrong but wasn't the authority of 'Ali challenged and his sons assassinated? That seems like trouble to me.

[baseeji]

Ah u are reffering to the burning of the house episode?

well either u stand on side A or side B you cant stand like on both sides of a bridge can u?

[Nehustan]

Luckily for me the bridge seems to have been burnt down 1300 years ago, and I am someway up stream watching from an island in the river

[baseeji]

Originally Posted by Nehustan

Luckily for me the bridge seems to have been burnt down 1300 years ago, and I am someway up stream watching from an island in the river

what are you talking about?

[Khalid Muhammad]

I think Nehustan is referring to not having to take sides (as proposed in your bridge/river bank analogy) rather he has found an 'island' in the river (extending your analogy) some 1300 years downstream.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by john313

salaam,
right, he followed the same teachings as REAL judaism, as in the real teachings of the original torah, the same teachings as REAL christianity and REAL islam. i think what i said has been misunderstood. according to hadith: in the end times there will be 1 sect of judaism, 1 sect of christianity and 1 sect of islam that are rightly guided. these would be REAL judaism, REAL christianity, and REAL islam. all the same thing

wa salaam

You're almost on the right path. You see in Islam we believe that "real" christianity, and "real" Judaism, were actually islam, they all had the basic idea of believing in one true God. So to correct you, the REAL judaism lead (leads) to the REAl christianity, and the REAL christianity lead (leads) to the REAL islam.

[john313]

Originally Posted by champion

You're almost on the right path. You see in Islam we believe that "real" christianity, and "real" Judaism, were actually islam, they all had the basic idea of believing in one true God. So to correct you, the REAL judaism lead (leads) to the REAl christianity, and the REAL christianity lead (leads) to the REAL islam.

i chose my words correctly. real judaism, real christianity, real islam; they are all the same thing, one does not lead to another. they are all the straight path to God, the razor thin path.

peace

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by john313

i chose my words correctly. real judaism, real christianity, real islam; they are all the same thing, one does not lead to another. they are all the straight path to God, the razor thin path.

peace

Ummm. It does'nt really matter what words you've chosen. What you're saying is wrong. First, you mentioned a hadeeth, that in the end of times there will be one Judaism, one Christianity, and one Islam. Firstly, why have'nt you included a source for this hadeeth? Secondly, this "hadeeth", contradicts the authentic hadeeth which says that Judaism will split into 71 sects, Christianity shall split into 72 sects, and Islam shall split into 73 sects. It also mentions that only 1 sect of Islam (the path of Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah) will be saved from the fire, while all others will perish. If this is what you mean, fine. Nevertheless, the fact that you even believe the hadeeth you quoted is correct not only contradicts all other hadeeth that are considered saheeh (authentic), but most importantly, it also contradicts the Noble Qur'an.

Allah SWT says: "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). [3:85]

and He SWT also says: "The religion before Allah is Islam: nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account." [3:19]

Btw, what religion do you follow?

[john313]

Originally Posted by champion

Ummm. It does'nt really matter what words you've chosen. What you're saying is wrong. First, you mentioned a hadeeth, that in the end of times there will be one Judaism, one Christianity, and one Islam. Firstly, why have'nt you included a source for this hadeeth? Secondly, this "hadeeth", contradicts the authentic hadeeth which says that Judaism will split into 71 sects, Christianity shall split into 72 sects, and Islam shall split into 73 sects. It also mentions that only 1 sect of Islam (the path of Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah) will be saved from the fire, while all others will perish. If this is what you mean, fine. Nevertheless, the fact that you even believe the hadeeth you quoted is correct not only contradicts all other hadeeth that are considered saheeh (authentic), but most importantly, it also contradicts the Noble Qur'an.

Allah SWT says: "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). [3:85]

and He SWT also says: "The religion before Allah is Islam: nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account." [3:19]

Btw, what religion do you follow?

you are close on the hadith, but it says one sect of each will be saved. please get your information correct before pointing your finger and saying i am wrong. what it is referring to is the people that consider themselves christians/jews/muslims. there will be one 'sect' of each that is rightly guided, which means they will be following the same path, which means they will each be following the "real" form of their religion as taught by their prophets, hence they are the same as per your quotes from the quran.
i did not post the source of the hadith because i could not remember that off the top of my head, but i do remember the hadith very clearly. i said i chose my words correctly because you thought you needed to correct me, but there was no need for correction.
i follow the teachings of the prophets, the straight path, muslims call it islam. but it is sometimes called different things, especially by those that do not speak arabic.

peace