African/Hatian Shamanism and Zombies (soul, America, confessions, religion)

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

I'd believe all this when the said shamans can do this under laboratory conditions, with a team of non-believing scientists attending.

Usually a shaman does not require belief to utilize their services - belief or nonbelief have no affect.

[Luke Wolf]

I recently watched a thing on National Geographic channel about that.
From what they said, it was some powdery formula composed on different things that the victim would ingest. The person would die, and in some cases even be issued a death certificate, then the shaman would resurect them.+

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Usually a shaman does not require belief to utilize their services - belief or nonbelief have no affect.

I simply do not believe that is correct. Trust me A_E, there is no shaman on the planet who can "utilize their services" on me. It is not a part of my reality and therefore would likely backfire on the shaman themself. In fact, I dare them to try.
(They might want to have their cell's keyed with 911, so all they have to do is hit "Send".)

[Pardus]

Drug someone to the point they are a "zombie".

You have your real world explanation.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

It is not a part of my reality and therefore would likely backfire on the shaman themself. In fact, I dare them to try.

Not a good idea in my opinion. It's better to leave well enough alone.

[Luke Wolf]

Drug someone to the point they are a "zombie".

This show explained it as something from a puffer fish was the key ingredient that "killed" the person. The person would go into a comma, and wake up shortly after, with all normal functions.

[Pardus]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

I simply do not believe that is correct. Trust me A_E, there is no shaman on the planet who can "utilize their services" on me. It is not a part of my reality and therefore would likely backfire on the shaman themself. In fact, I dare them to try.
(They might want to have their cell's keyed with 911, so all they have to do is hit "Send".)

Is that a challenge?

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Pardus

Is that a challenge?

Actually, it is, but quite honestly I would feel bad that people got themselves hurt attempting to do so... for a moment or two. Then I would probably chuckle and mutter "Tricks are for kids!"

FeatherInHair or perhaps Kreeden, perhaps even some of the Wiccans might be able to explain what I call the "Boomerang effect".


But, back to the OP.

I'm not saying that people witnessing these events will not report oddities that seem supernatural. I am implicitly stating that it is more of a case of belief in action, if not run amok. The idea that one can be affected by curses or any intrusive act is dependent on one's belief in such things. If you do not believe in or understand them for what they are, one develops something akin to a "teflon" coating... or perhaps "spiritual mirror" might also give the idea.

To my viewpoint "eye witness" accounts are simply describing the results of their own beliefs. They believe the shaman has supernatural "powers". The shaman also believes he/she has supernatural powers. The twain meet and you end up with a three ring circus... where anything can, in theory, occur.

I could be wrong, but it is a bit more logical than things that go bump in the night.

[Nehustan]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Zombification
Wade Davis
Science > New Series, Vol. 240, No. 4860 (Jun., 1988), pp. 1715-1716

In this article, Wade Davis analyzes the chemical compounds of a Hatian potion that supposedly turns living people into zombies...

He has published two books on the topic: The Serpant and the Rainbow and Passage of Darkness.

My Prof. has actually conducted fieldwork with a local academic out in Haiti on this exact subject. Despite looking he found no conclusive evidence for Davis' postulation. In fact during my interview he said that the people delineated as 'zombies' were more often than not suffering from mental health conditions, and actually were not related to the people that claimed they were their dead relatives (i.e. via DNA).

Found the article by him, you may have to visit a library that has in it hard copy, unless your athens login will gain you access to a database...

Clinical findings in three cases of zombification
Roland Littlewood, Chavannes Douyon
The Lancet - Vol. 350, Issue 9084, 11 October 1997, Pages 1094-1096

(I used ScienceDirect)