Multi-Beings (ritual, Kingdom, soul, hell, spiritual)

[Master Vigil]

MV , all that I said is that there are those who have made that connection . Personally , I'm not getting into that because 1) I don't know enough about mental science 2) mental science is ... well , hardly a science . They don't seem to be able to agree on much , and it is always changing , depending upon the favour of the week , or so it appears

I agree. Even criteria for mental illness is constantly changing. I wonder when the DSM IV will become the DSM V. Even the DSM IV has been changed hundreds of times already.

[kreeden]

I have came across a New Age concept called " Huna ". It is based upon Hawiian beliefs , and is very close to my concept of our three " realities ", and three asspects of our being . { although I do disagree on many of the divisions they make , it is as close to how I view the world as anything I have yet found ** .

[YmirGF]

Dear Kreeden and Master Vigil.

I just want to say that I have a profound respect for your ideas. Bravo.

[kreeden]

I'm still forming my " ideas ". But thank you YmirGF .

It just seems to me that there are so many aspects of what we call reality . Some people say that time is an illusion , others say that life it's self is an illusion . To me , everything is an illusion , in some ways , and yet , everything is very real in other ways . So , for me , it is easier to break reality into ... different aspects . Like time has real meaning in a physical sense , much less meaning in a mental sense , and no meaning in a Spiritual sense . .....

Did I just say that makes it easier for me to understand it ??? Oh well , it seems to work for me .

[1nharmony]

Originally Posted by kreeden

The Spiritual . The Mind is so Subjective , and it is the mind that connects us to the Spiritual , as well as the Physical , that I'm not going to try to explain it . All that I'm going to say here is that it IS NOT a different place . It is a Reality that we live in everyday , along with the Realities of the Physical and the Mental beings that we are . Oh yes , we belong to all three Realities . Exist in them simultanceously . But I'm not telling you anything new here , am I ?

Now , since we exist in these three realities , would it not make sense that we develope different personalities to deal with each ? Different personas ? Hell , most of us develope different personas to deal with the Physical Reality . The Mental Reality has even more , as it connects with more and things are more abstract . Jung's Archetypes just start to slim the surface , I think . And in the Spiritual , well the only limitations we have are those we bring with us from the Mental or Physical .

Originally Posted by kreeden

Anyway , on the edges of the area where our minds and the physical overlap we encounter things that we don't deal every well with . Experiences and the like . But we still have to deal with them . And that is where our different personas come into play , I think . For excample , we can be a man { or woman , or both at times ** , a husband , businessperson , protector , whatever . Do we cope with which of these things in the same way ? No . We are very different people when we are confronting a person who backed their car into our car , then we are when we are sharing a loving moment with a loved one { at else I hope that we are ** . And the more extreme the encounter , the more extreme the persona we use .

Of course , we are only using those personality treats that are best for each situation , but that is my point . We are mutli-leveled beings who enteract on a multi-leveled Reality .

First let me say that I am a big fan of "typos" and kreeden, you have created a classic in the first quote. You said that we exist in all three Realities (Physical, Mental, Spiritual) "simultanceously". Now, I know what you meant to say, but my mind read this as "simul-tenaciously" and the concept appeared to me of a somewhat tenuous co-existence in the three realms. Which leads me to ask, do you think our co-existence in these Realities is harmonious or confrontational? Your implication that we create different personas, or character traits, for different situations in our lives as well as the three different aspects of our lives suggests to me an unfriendly relationship within our Realities. In the second quote you again imply that we have what I will term "situational personas", that we are different people according to whatever we are experiencing at the moment. I disagree with you there on the grounds that our emotions change according to our surroundings, but not our personality.

But as far as having different persona for each Reality, well, that's a very interesting concept. But again I will disagree. I think each Reality merely reflects a different aspect of the overall character or personality of the individual. The Indians have a saying, "As within, so without." That is to say, whatever goes on within a person (mentally and/or spiritually) will become expressed outwardly as well. So if you are quick-tempered, then you will be prone to react physically to angry emotions. If you have a quiet spirit, you will react calmly and reasonably.

Yes, we are multi-leveled beings, but we interact with others predominately in the physical and mental/emotional realms. I cannot say that I have ever interacted with another being in the spiritual realm. I think I would like to, though!

I recognize that this is thread is a bit old, but I am new to the forum and found it quite intriguing. Thank you for posting it.

[kreeden]

I am sorry that I have not noticed your post untill now 1nharmony . I do tend to loss things on this forum .

To try and answer your questions , I believe that existing on these " realities " simultaneously can be both harmonious and confrontational , depending upon how " balanced " we are . For excample , if the " Physical Self " is always fighting with the " Mental Self " for some self gratifying need , or if the Mind is always deniling the Body such needs , then yes , it is very confrontational .

In the same way that Chakra points have to be " balanced ", so do the three " Realities " , in my opinion . If any one over balances another in any way , then we have problems .

It isn't so much that we are different people . I believe that we are different persona that make up one person . Jungian persona . Although our surroundings may effect our emotions , it is our emotions that bring out these persona . Once a persona is out in the open , it often colours our surroundings . The Jungian " Child " for excample . Once the Child is in play , then we will view all of our surroundings throught the eyes of the Child , untill we get control of the Child , or another " Archetype " takes it's place .

Now I dislike using Jung , as I really don't understand his work all that well and have had it pointed out to me before ... But even if I am disunderstanding him , the above excample is the easiest way I know of explaining what I mean . So please , try not to get too caught up in the terms of psychology here .

How I agree that to a large degree , we create our own " realities ". " As within , so without ". But the flip side to that would be " As without , so within ". There comes a point where we have to admit that " NO man is an island ". Time for excample . No matter how much we deny that Time is anything other then a concept , we grow older ... Time moves on with or without us . What does our " personality " have to do with Time ? Can we stop Time ?

Sorry . If I continue along those lines I will get very side-tracked . Cause and Effect is a better excample to use here . What is " within " before we have any interaction with the " without ". It all adds up to make us what we are . And of course our " Free Will " allows us to take what we are given and create our personality .

You see , it is all about how all of these things that appear to contradict each other actually do fit into our lifes . And understanding that is how the harmony is created out of the chaos .

Yes , we do spend most of our time in the physical world . Some may spend more in the mental world . { although I don't think that all emotions come from the mental world **. But we are also touched by the Spiritual while wandering aimlessly in this physical world . And all that I am trying to do is to put into my own words how this can be . Why ? Because a Raven told me that I should ...

Thank you for your post 1nharmony . I hope to hear your reply to the above .

[1nharmony]

kreeden, your PM helped me learn something new on this site - how to track down my own posts in my Profile. Wasn't sure I'd be able to find the thread otherwise!

I think our three Realities are in continuous interaction with each other. But I wouldn't say that my body "fights" with my mind over an extra chocolate chip cookie. In order to have the health I desire, my mind knows that an apple is better suited to that craving. The only battle, if any occurs, is in my mind over which one I desire more, good health or another cookie? My body, truly, is not capable of battling with my mind since it is subject to whatever decision my mind determines to act upon.
I feel that we may struggle in any (or all ) of our Realities independently, but interaction between them within ourselves is harmonious. My reason for thinking this is that we usually try to find ways to ease our struggles. If we are struggling with a physical problem we try to find ways that will help. Mentally we may research our problem. Spiritually we may pray or meditate. Sometimes we may find solution to our struggle within the same reality (such as physical therapy for a physical problem and psychotherapy for a mental problem).

In regards to creating our own realities I find myself asking this question. Can our physical reality create a mental struggle? (Or any other such combination?) Technically I would say no. I think any struggle is created within its own reality. If I get mad at someone for cutting me off on the highway, my mental struggle is created by my response to the physical reality, not the reality itself. It is within the realm of my mental Reality that the struggle has been created.

Balancing the three Realities is a difficult concept for me. How would that balance be known? By a lack of struggle?

On to the Jungian persona. I don't know Jung, only of him, and have not read his work. So let me just respond to this concept of having different persona making up the whole person. I agree that we put on different "masks" according to the variety of public situations we interact in each day. But not different personalities. If you had someone who knows you well follow you for a few days and comment upon your interactions they would say "You were kind to this person. You got very angry one day. You seemed bored when he was talking to you." The thing you would NOT hear them tell you is "Wow! You acted so different I didn't even know you!" Do you see what I mean? Sure we act different in a variety of situations,but we don't change.

Thanks for PMing me. I've been wondering how to keep track of my posts!

[kreeden]

That is a trick I sometimes use to find " lost " threads too . By going to my profile and checking out my posts . This forum is huge ...

Ok . I agree that on one level the " self " is one . I mean , my physical body does not " think " as such . However , just how much info is imprinted into our DNA is debatible . Instincts and the like . I do have a hard time deciding where these " instincts " end and emotions start . But for the sake of arguement , I have given my " body " a voice , a mind of it's own if you will .

Our Realities are in continuous interaction with each other . Which is what makes up the " self " as a whole . And being diabetic , I think that the " Body " has a very load voice at times . Using your excample , the " Body " doesn't really want a cookie , it wants something sweet . And by making the trade off from the cookie to the sweet apple can work . The " Mind " can train the " Body ". And that is where we can find conflict . If the Mind trys to push the Body too far . An extreme excample of this would be an addict . I am also a smoker , so I can say that is another battle that my Body wins over my Mind . I know that smoking is not good for me , but my Body is addicted and DEMANDS a cigarette very few minutes . Yes , there is a mental side to that addiction , but largely it is physical .

Yes , any " struggle " actually happens within our Mental Reality . The Physical Reality usually doesn't get that deep . It reacts . It is the primeval force of suevival that drives us . We are hungery , so we eat . What we eat doesn't much matter , however your " Physical Selves " are very easily contdictioned to desire ... cookies . But an excample of how our Physical Being could be in conflict with one of our " higher " Selves " would be Lust vs Love .

Your excample of someone cutting you off in traffic doesn't really go deep enough . Why were you cut off ? Were you too close ? Was it a mistake on the other driver's part ? Chances are , you weren't really reacting to anything " Physical " at all , but to what you " Mentally " believed happened . If so , one could ask if the " conflict " really had anything to do with the Physical at all ? Other then a physical triggering the reaction .

Yea , I am kinda pushing it a bit . But to see something in a way that we aren't use to viewing it sometimes requires being pushed beyond the norm .

A very good question . How do we know if the three Realities are in balance ? I'm afraid I don't have an answer . I think that this is a natural state of our being , and as such it would be as hard to define as how we know that we are truely alive . I mean we really have nothing to conpare it too if we have never been more " in balance " then we are right now . I guess this is where the Spiritual comes into play . The more in balance we are , the more Spiritual we are ??? If it works like the Chakra , then that would be the case . At least the easier it would be fore us to be in touch with the Spiritual side of ourselves .

Actually I have had people say that they didn't know me because of my actions . But I agree that usually we do stay " within character " while in a familuar environment . It is when we find ourselves outside this environment that the dark and secert parts of our personalities come out . Ok , they aren't always so dark , and perhaps not so secert . But you know what I mean .

And thank you for your comments . These are only my own beliefs and I am not trying to convince any others to follow them . But they should be able to stand on their own , at least to the point that another can kinda understand where I am coming from . And this is what this thread is all about really . To see if I can explain my beliefs in a way others can grasp . Or to find out if I am just totally delusional .

[EnhancedSpirit]

wow, this is a really old thread. I'm glad it has been resurrected. It goes along with something I've been working on. Getting all my parts in sync with one another. The only thing I wish to add is that I believe the emotions do not lie in the mental state of man, but in the spiritual state of man. The mental state decides what to do about the emotions, or tries to rationalize them.

I also think that while the physical state of man is indeed linear, and very limited by laws of physics, the mental state of man is limited to his/her experience, and the spiritual side of mankind has no limits. No limit of time, or gravity. I believe that the spiritual side of man hold the key to our highest potential, and it is in a constant tug of war with the physical and mental states.

I believe when you are very happy about something that is your spiritual self expressing itself, and unhappiness is caused by the spirit's desire to express itself.