Exclusive Sex (moral, choices, choice, experience, marriage)

[Jaiket]

This might be a bit touchy for some people, apologies in advance if my opinion makes you uncomfortable.

I agree with most (almost all) people that I know that it is morally wrong to decieve others (please note that sentence). I do not agree however that upon entering into a sexual relationship with another person I am afforded the right to exclusive access to that person's body, and neither will I grant that right to another person of mine.

As far as I can see the biological drive for 'fidelity' within a sexual context (and by that I mean the urge to make sure the other party isn't getting some elsewhere) has been strongly selected for in nature, as makes sense. Genes for jealousy would certainly appear to have an increased chance of passing themselves on. Yet, from my perspective, it seems clear that our partners indulging in safe sex with another man or woman in a non-conceptive encounter is likely to do us no more harm than if they choose to speak, jog, or collect stamps together.

If I am right and we have nothing to lose from engaging in simply another physical activity where ever it is desirable (and of course consensual) can it be justified to claim a right to determination of another person on an appeal to biology? Or even cheaper, selfishness?

My reasoning might appear a bit simple, but that's because my thinking is terribly muddled on almost all issues and for clarity's sake I went for brief and concise.

[cardero]

Jaiket writes: If I am right and we have nothing to lose from engaging in simply another physical activity where ever it is desirable (and of course consensual) can it be justified to claim a right to determination of another person on an appeal to biology? Or even cheaper, selfishness?

I think that you hit the nut on the bolt. Sex at best is a great pastime and at worst enslavement. Jealousy usually leads to a false illusion of ownership just as extracurricular sexual encounters can often lead to a false illusion of love. Both mrscardero and I agree that anyone can have sex but not everyone can have a relationship, especially if it established in sex.

[Sunstone]

I can only speak for myself, but I have noticed that I become emotionally monogamous after about two years in a committed relationship. Prior to that, I might (or might not) be monogamous in fact, but I don't feel monogamous. I don't feel like my partner is the only person I want sex with.

That wasn't always true of me. When I was younger, I never became emotionally monogamous. But as I grew older, that changed.

Related to that, I have found that when I do become monogamous, I experience sex as much more pleasurable and connected with my partner.

Having said all that, Jaiket, I think that how couples approach monogamy is up to them. As you mentioned, deceit is immoral, but so long as each partner knows where they truly stand with the other on this issue, and can decide whether to continue in the relationship based on a true assessment of it, then I have no problems with open relationships.

To me, the notion we possess another person's reproductive choices is disgusting. If someone freely agrees to be faithful to us, that's one thing; but if we attempt to impose faithfulness on someone, that's another thing, and a very questionable thing.

Who to reproduce with should never be coerced. It's too much a fundamental right.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by cardero

Sex at best is a great pastime

Bird watching is a great pastime.

Sex at it's best brings you closer to your partner and strengthens the bonds of trust and intimacy between you.

[Ðanisty]

If I am right and we have nothing to lose from engaging in simply another physical activity where ever it is desirable (and of course consensual) can it be justified to claim a right to determination of another person on an appeal to biology? Or even cheaper, selfishness?

I can demand whatever I want from a partner and if he/she disagrees, then he/she can leave and find someone more compatible with their lifestyle. It sounds almost to me like you're saying we can't have standards and rules in a relationship.

[evearael]

I presume you are advocating consentual casual sex and open relationships, where the lack of exclusivity is clearly stated from the beginning. Personally, I am monogamous with a vengence and view sex as sacred. I appreciate you avoiding deception with your liasons and hope that you take the appropriate means to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies and STDs (I hope you discuss both prior to relations). Do you feel that you are just not ready for a commitment at this point in your life, or that you will never be ready to commit yourself to one person?

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by evearael

Do you feel that you are just not ready for a commitment at this point in your life, or that you will never be ready to commit yourself to one person?

Absence of monogamy doesn't necessarily equal lack of commitment -- although it might. I think the main thing is for people to agree on the ground rules and be honest with each other. Monogamy is the only thing that works for some people, but there are other people for whom it doesn't work at all.

I know couples who are very happily non-monogamous. I've even known couples who had no sexual relationship at all, some of whom did -- and some of whom didn't -- have sexual relationships outside their marriage.

One thing that needs to be considered, about from being honest with your spouse, is being honest with -- and considerate of -- anyone else you (singular or plural) might get involved with.

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules, but whatever you decide on, it has to work for everybody -- and the greater the number of people you're talking about, the more complicated that gets.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Jaiket

Yet, from my perspective, it seems clear that our partners indulging in safe sex with another man or woman in a non-conceptive encounter is likely to do us no more harm than if they choose to speak, jog, or collect stamps together.

I think the emotional and psychological effects of having sex with another person far outweigh the emotional and psychological effects of speaking, jogging or stamping collecting with someone else. I suppose the comparison could be made if one ignores the emotional and psychological effects of sex and only focuses on the physical pleas