Pornography (moral, Earth, virtual, hell, doctrine)

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

*sings loudly and out of tune* "Freedom isnt free, it costs folks like you and me!.....a buck o' five!"

I think Kristofferson trumps...

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by s2a

Ya know, I've observed more than a few folks stating that (in essence), "porn is wrong (or evil, bad, destructive, etc.)", but offer virtually no support for their position (beyond personalized opinion).

What, people are posting their opinions? What is this discussion board coming to?

Originally Posted by s2a

I can't help but be reminded of the (alcohol) prohibitionists of the early 20th century in this regard.

Booze is bad.
Booze made me do bad things.
I've seen others do bad things drinking booze.
I can't control my bad actions when I drink booze.
Therefore, no one should be able to drink booze, because booze is bad for everyone.

Not quite. The issue at hand is not whether pornography should be censored or illegalized (I do not recall anyone bringing this up). I certainly do not think it should be illegalized.

Originally Posted by s2a

I believe in personal freedom to choose for oneself...what to choose for oneself.

I doubt anyone here disagrees with this point. And to add to what you said, healthy discussion certainly helps in those choices, which brings us to our next point:

Originally Posted by s2a

Your conscientious counsel and objections are noted, but don't tell me what I can or can not responsibly choose for myself.

Focus on your own damn family.

Hmm.. I do not think anyone is suggesting they have authority over you or anyone else. I am not sure why you feel this way. Do you believe any discussion on morality and ethics is inapprorpiate?

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

Isn't it a bit weird to accuse someone of "nastiness" for being coherent?

Speaking of coherency, I do not follow your point. Are nastiness and coherency mutally exclusive?

[Nick Soapdish]

An important point of this discussion is that millions of men dig themselves into holes because of an uncontrolled sex drive. No doubt the male sex drive is formidable and assertive, but it also has sharp and deep claws. Men may be scathed with an unwanted pregnancy, an STD, an embarrassing situation, or a fragmentation of the trust held by their spouse. Our they may be wounded more deeply with a broken family. All because of a bad choice that came from a sudden and uncontrolled "primal urge". I believe most men will at some time in their lives receive their fair share of cuts and scratches.

I'm not saying sex is inherently bad, because that is simply not the case. It is a vital component to a healthy spousal relationship. But men continually get themselves into trouble with misguided sexual desires (think of all of the books, poems and plays throughout history on this theme). It is my opinion we ought to tame the instinct to the best of our ability so that it can be engaged at the appropriate times and subdued at the inappropriate times.

Hopefully, as men, we can avoid the deep wounds in our lives. I do not believe that the men that have these wounds are chosen by some cosmic pair of dice, but rather, their sudden "bad-choice" is the consequence of years and years of habitual behavior. People would like to think that indulging in certain behaviors does not change who we are, but there are certain neural pathways that become strengthened as habits develop. It is hard to believe the ones nurtured by indulgency in pornography (particularly when done in secrecy) are going to help men in sexual struggles they will inevitably face later in life.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Buttercup]

I really respect your views atofel, especially because you are a man. It is a rare man indeed that eschews pornography in this modern age of computers. I also think this paragraph is spot on...you are an insightful soul! I know men personally who have gotten their marriages in trouble by thinking this path was ok for them.

Originally Posted by atofel

People would like to think that indulging in certain behaviors does not change who we are, but there are certain neural pathways that become strengthened as habits develop. It is hard to believe the ones nurtured by indulgency in pornography (particularly when done in secrecy) are going to help men in sexual struggles they will inevitably face later in life.

[mr.guy]

It is hard to believe the ones nurtured by indulgency in pornography (particularly when done in secrecy) are going to help men in sexual struggles they will inevitably face later in life.

That's pretty much it though, isn't it? A belief statement. Personally, i find it hard to believe that extreme sexual suppression is any more of a golden ticket. Why would "indulgers" be viewing porn in secret if not for the associated shame that puritans like yourself propagate? This internal logic of the sexual "beast taming" we hear so much of is just tired victorian chatter. Good luck with it, Dr.Kellog.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

That's pretty much it though, isn't it? A belief statement. Personally, i find it hard to believe that extreme sexual suppression

Do you think not looking at porn is extreme sexual suppression? Or just having to do it in secret is extreme sexual suppression? I imagine the majority of men who are married and view porn do it in secret...or at least downplay the habit quite a bit to their wives.

I view men who do not look at porn as quite refreshing actually. Getting more and more rare in this day and age.

[godfree1]

Originally Posted by Orichalcum

What is your stance on this?

I thoroughly enjoy pornography in all formats. Men are visual creatures, I've found.

I view it as degrading.

All of the men I see in pornography always seem to be completely enjoying themselves. I haven't seen any "degrading" moments in any of the pornography I rent, but then I'm not into S&M. I view pornography as foreplay, and a natural male ... uh, enhancement.

But for some people it can be good ( so i'm told ), as in a friend who only views it because he doesn't have the time to get a girlfriend ( Yes, it sounds stupid to me too ).

Pornography is great for me, as it is for millions of of other men, and I have a fantastic boyfriend that I still share it with after twelve wonderful years together.

What do you think?

I think I'm going to take a trip to my local distributor later on this afternoon in order to rent a few choice titles. So far, I'm still free to do that where I live.

If this is deemed in anyway offensive then delete.

It might only be offensive here in the decidedly sex-phobic country we share.

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

That's pretty much it though, isn't it? A belief statement. Personally, i find it hard to believe that extreme sexual suppression is any more of a golden ticket. Why would "indulgers" be viewing porn in secret if not for the associated shame that puritans like yourself propagate? This internal logic of the sexual "beast taming" we hear so much of is just tired victorian chatter. Good luck with it, Dr.Kellog.

I can it see it would be convenient to characterize me as some victorian stooge out to repress sexuality, but that does not represent my philosophy at all. I am all for open communication and dialogue on sexuality (particularly with young people) and believe sex is something that should be celebrated and cherished. I am for education, not condemnation.

I find it odd that anyone would take the position that there are certain instincts or urges that a man ought not attempt to temper or control. Every man should seek to have full command of their faculties. I suspect this is not your position (and hope it is not), but so far you have not given any indication that your ethic isn't prioritized by exciting the physical senses as much as possible.

[ch'ang]

Every man should seek to have full command of their faculties

To deny your urges is to deny who you are. Most people are taught to find certain things about themselves as undesirable or animalistic and so they repress them thinking they have done good. To really live "your" life and not someone’s else’s view of how you should live you need to let yourself go