Atheists & Agnostics: Sense of the Sacred

[LuisDantas]

Originally Posted by Storm

Do you have a sense of the sacred? What does that phrase mean to you?

Yes, I do.

To me the sacred is the attribute of things, situations, feelings, and motivations that directly involve a conscious choice of contributing to the eventual establishment of stable, vital, healthy environments.

Key to that definition is some degree of intention, of purpose. Just as central is that such goal must be directly (if probably humbly) related to the artful balance between stability and vitality - a balance that is unavoidably a permanent challenge to keep, although not necessarily a difficult or hurtful challenge.

Thing is, such a balance is in some very real sense actually alive; it sort of indicates its own desirable next steps as it develops.

There are some who interpret that vital nature of the balance as evidence of the existence of something they call "god". Maybe they are right. I just don't see reason to agree with them, partially because I don't think they quite agree among themselves on just what "god" would be.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Storm

Do you have a sense of the sacred? What does that phrase mean to you?

I use the word "sacred" very sparingly....and I rarely use it regarding myself or my own experiences. Generally, I reserve that word for simply explaining how utterly priceless life is...especially of those we love.

However, I know what you're getting at.

From my Any Questions? thread:
Kaleria (kah-LEE-ree-ah):
A moment of overwhelming awe and wonder at the glory of life. You can find it in a sunset, a child, atrocity, compassion. To me, the meaning of Enlightenment is to attain a state of constant kaleria.
This is what "sense of the sacred" means to me - do you experience such moments? If so, what triggers them most often?

First off, I cannot imagine in my wildest imaginings that it's possible to attain a constant state of kaleria. Wouldn't that be grand? Seems as though you'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time on yourself to achieve it. And, most of us aint got that kind of time.

I've had many moments of spontaneous spiritual feeding though and it seems the most memorable experiences were induced under duress. It's almost as though this universal power came especially to bestow a sense of peace and oneness with the world...it was very odd but supremely pleasurable. I wish I could recreate those moments at will.

In more mundane moments, I derive sublime pleasure from outdoor hikes or time spent with my husband. Just tonight we had a great walk along the McKenzie River at dusk and I was thinking that life doesn't get much better than this.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Storm

DKaleria (kah-LEE-ree-ah):
A moment of overwhelming awe and wonder at the glory of life. You can find it in a sunset, a child, atrocity, compassion. To me, the meaning of Enlightenment is to attain a state of constant kaleria.
This is what "sense of the sacred" means to me - do you experience such moments? If so, what triggers them most often?

Most often, natural phenomena, or great heights, or family memories, or a combination -- but not always. I feel it when I look at the stars, or when I'm in the mountains or at the beach. I feel it at Niagara Falls and at the Empire State Building. I never felt it at the World Trade Center when the towers were standing, but I felt it when I visited Ground Zero after the towers fell. I feel it when I stand outside my grandparents' house and my great-grandparents' house in Sheboygan, both of which passed out of our family decades ago. I feel it when I make the climb to the place where my great-grandparents and my mother's brothers are buried in Toecane, North Carolina. I feel it when I'm swimming. I feel it traveling by water, and -- less often -- traveling by air. I feel it when I get drunk and talk to the large portrait of my great-grandmother. I feel it when I look at the print of The Tale of Adventure, which hung in my grandparents' friends' house and my grandparent's house and my parents' house and now hangs in our house. I feel it when I read my great-great-grandfather's German Bible.

Not saying that all those things, or any of those things, always invoke a state of kaleria, mind you. But when I experience that kind of state, those are the kinds of things that bring it on.

[Inky]

There are two different mental states that I associate with this idea. First of all, there's a sort of rush or high I sometimes get when listening to certain music, reading a great story, holding a beautiful flower or richly colored piece of cloth...that's been fairly constant throughout my life and I've never associated it with religion, even when I was religious. I wouldn't describe it as "happy"; it's more a sense of supreme satisfaction and gratification. I think Sugriva's comparison to orgasm is a good one.

On the other hand, there's a certain feeling that's just as strong, but is more a sense of joy, comfort and being loved. When I was religious I associated this feeling exclusively with God and felt it only during prayer or spiritual moments, and it was the one thing I thought I would miss most from religion. Soon after that I realized I could evoke the same experience through meditation. My guess is that since my prayer habits were very meditative, that's how I learned to channel that feeling, and now meditation does it for me because it's so mentally similar to how I used to pray. Form over content.

Even if I could have either of those experiences all the time, I wouldn't want to...they're pleasurable, but I think they would interfere with me doing the things I want to accomplish in life. It would be like having a 24/7 morphine drip.

Good thread idea, hope this is enlightening! (pun intended. : D)

[invisible chzbrgr]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

I'm not sure. I guess for me, the term "sacred" would be more appropriate to apply to things I would protect... my marriage, for example. And while my marriage can elicit the experience you describe, things I wouldn't protect in that way can, too.

For example, I might experience awe and wonder looking at a meadow in the sunset, but I wouldn't have any compunction about cutting the grass.

This sounds about right. Sacred to me, means inviolate.

Penguin says, marriage, and I agree with that; I also would include privacy, body, freedom of speech, integrity.

The state of being one with and wonder at everything...this oddly enough I associate with getting a new perspective on something.

Seeing a city I've visited before, for the first time from an airplane. I marvel at humans!

Hearing a song I already know, for the first time thru my iPod. The depth of some music can really resonate with you somehow, sometimes.

Reading a book that put a problem or question or expression in a new way I've never thought about.

^^So far it's all been about my fellow people amazing me. Isn't that funny? Even I didn't expect that answer

Sometimes I have strange thoughts... that on one of those warm days, in the shade, with no breeze, and the temperature is at just that right level, where it feels like no heat needs to go in or out through your skin to regulate you.... like it's just right if you don't move lol. Not sure where I am going with that, but I sure do love savoring those days!