Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it? (Creator, Moses)

[theMadJW]

Is it 3 Gods in 1?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost?

Did Jesus HAVE a God?

[Mister Emu]

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Pretty clear... Jesus accepts being called God by Thomas...

[theMadJW]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

Pretty clear... Jesus accepts being called God by Thomas...

'Clear' when assuming.

How to explain something when someone
doesn't WANT to know!

Jesus is the son of God.(Not God Almighty.)
It is the Trinity Dogma that sends the mind
down the wrong path.

What did Thomas mean when he said to Jesus,
"my lord and my God"?

Since the account shows that Jesus had,
just BEFORE appearing to Thomas,
appeared to Mary Magdalene, telling her to
send his disciples the message, "I am
ascending to my Father and your Father and
to my God and your God"there is no reason
for believing that Thomas thought Jesus
was God Almighty.{John20:17}
(Except if you believe Church Tradition)

Imagine YOU are Thomas.

Your faith has been DEVASTATED; Your
"Messiah" was brutally killed & shamefully
nailed to a stake/cross. He must have been just
another of the many false prophets, and you
were stupid enough to believe him! Your world
caves in as your faith & dreams vanish! Now this
man is before you claiming to BE Jesus- but
he doesn't LOOK the same (maybe it was dark-
no electricity!).
He tells you to feel his hands, and as you see
the nail wounds- and FEEL them, Euphoric shock
overwhelms you, as you cry out
" My Lord and My God!",overwhelmed to realise
it IS Jesus, and how grateful you are to
God above for resurrecting him!

Since one CANNOT see God (Moses, Christ,
John), Thomas praised them BOTH, in awed
shock at realizing Christ HAD been resurrected-
and Christ would have CORRECTED Thomas,
if he had meant what the Clergy have taught
for centuries.

John himself after recounting Thomas'
encounter with the resurrected Jesus,
says of this and similar accounts: "But these
have been written down that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ the SON OF GOD,
(NOT God Almighty)
and that,because of believing , you may have
life by means of his name." Joh 20:,31.

[Mister Emu]

Jesus is the Son of God, he is also the Alpha and the Omega, and the creator of all things... God.

[Riverwolf]

Jesus once denied being God. "Why do you call me good? There is no one good except God alone". (Mark. 10:18, Luke 18:19)

Therefore Jesus is not God, but man. I can pretty much guarantee that Jesus didn't think of himself as God. I don't think it was ever part of the prophecy that the Messiah would be God Himself.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Jesus once denied being God. "Why do you call me good? There is no one good except God alone". (Mark. 10:18, Luke 18:19)

Therefore Jesus is not God, but man. I can pretty much guarantee that Jesus didn't think of himself as God. I don't think it was ever part of the prophecy that the Messiah would be God Himself.

I think you're partly right about Jesus not conceiving of himself as God, if by that we mean Jesus thought "Oh yes, I'm the second person of an as-yet-unheard-of trinity with all the divine rights, powers, and privileges of deity." Folks like that get locked up, and rightly so. But Jesus DID think of himself as God in other senses. He thought it was his right to do what only God could do, for example forgive sins and execute judgment. He taught "as one with authority, and not as the scribes." Whatever else that means, it means he thought his own interpretation of scripture was decisive, and he felt no need to justify his interpretation by appeal to other interpreters. These (among other things) point to Jesus' self-understanding as including himself in the divine in a way unique among Jews. I agree that he probably wouldn't have parsed this out in a trinitarian way, but that doesn't mean the trinitarian formulation is untrue.

And given all the other ways in which Jesus was ascribed deity or ascribed it to himself, the citation from Mark. 10:18 and Luke 18:19 is a pretty weak refutation. After all, Jesus may well have said it in order to test his listener. He was waiting for a response such as "Well, I call you good because you are God" as a response. We'll just never know, I suppose, but it seems that the tradition of Jesus' deity is quite early and precedes the compilation of the NT. The best explanation for that is that Jesus did and said things only God should have been doing and saying; that is, the scriptural portrait is more or less accurate.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

I think you're partly right about Jesus not conceiving of himself as God, if by that we mean Jesus thought "Oh yes, I'm the second person of an as-yet-unheard-of trinity with all the divine rights, powers, and privileges of deity." Folks like that get locked up, and rightly so. But Jesus DID think of himself as God in other senses. He thought it was his right to do what only God could do, for example forgive sins and execute judgment. He taught "as one with authority, and not as the scribes." Whatever else that means, it means he thought his own interpretation of scripture was decisive, and he felt no need to justify his interpretation by appeal to other interpreters. These (among other things) point to Jesus' self-understanding as including himself in the divine in a way unique among Jews. I agree that he probably wouldn't have parsed this out in a trinitarian way, but that doesn't mean the trinitarian formulation is untrue.

And given all the other ways in which Jesus was ascribed deity or ascribed it to himself, the citation from Mark. 10:18 and Luke 18:19 is a pretty weak refutation. After all, Jesus may well have said it in order to test his listener. He was waiting for a response such as "Well, I call you good because you are God" as a response. We'll just never know, I suppose, but it seems that the tradition of Jesus' deity is quite early and precedes the compilation of the NT. The best explanation for that is that Jesus did and said things only God should have been doing and saying; that is, the scriptural portrait is more or less accurate.

Thing is, testing people is not in Jesus's character. Not to mention the portrayal of Jesus varies depending on the Synoptic gospels, or the Gospel of John, or the letters of Paul. Each has a different Christ to paint.

Ever read "The Five Gospels"?

[theMadJW]

I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
When you've sen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to do My Own will, since I am God!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!


Jesus words re-phrased to see the 'Trinity'-

(Jesus baptised Himself in Himself, when floating down like a Dove
as God-the-Ghost)
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
I AM!
When you've seen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to not to do My Own will, but My OWN Will!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Believe in Me, also, in ME!
The witness of two or three doesn't apply to ME;
I Bear Witness to myself, and so does Myself as God-the-Father,
and Myself as God-the-Ghost- but we aren't 3 Persons; we are ONE and the SAME!
I came to make MY OWN Name known!
I have both glorified Myself, and WILL glorify Myself!


I could go on...but WHY?
It is SO obvious even a child can easily understand how goofy the dogma is...



But not churchoids!

[sandy whitelinger]

Oh boy, onther Trinty/Jesus is/isn't God debate that will go on for 6,000 post and change no ones mind.

[Charity]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Oh boy, onther Trinty/Jesus is/isn't God debate that will go on for 6,000 post and change no ones mind.

Fruitless rhetoric