The Divinity of the Quran vs. the Bible

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by Bowman

Not only have you not read the Holy Bible, but you also have not taken the time to study it, brother.

The best that you can do is google webpaste from islamic polemic websites...

And yet i know better about Bible than you

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by Bowman

This is Aramaic transliteration into Greek, brother.

Not Hebrew.

You need to tell that to Christian scholars who claim that,personally i dont know Hebrew so i cant confirm

Originally Posted by Bowman

What a way to avoid an answer, brother...

The Koranic authors have Jesus speaking in Arabic!

You just got finished stating that Hebrew was Jesus' tongue!!!

Either you are a big moron or you don't wanna know the truth

You wanna know who are real authors of bible , lets start over

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it (i.e., the bible) into a LIE. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.

The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

The Gospel of Matthew:

"The unknown author, whom we shall continue to call Matthew for the sake of convenience, drew no only up the Gospel according to Mark but upon a large body of material (principally, sayings of Jesus) not found in Mk that corresponds, sometimes exactly, to material found also in the Gospel according to Luke. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1008)"

"As for the place where the gospel was composed, a plausible suggestion is that it was Antioch, the capital of the Roman province of Syria. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1009)"

The Gospel of Mark:

Note: This gospel is the oldest and supposedly the most original one in the New Testament!


"Although the book is anonymous, apart from the ancient heading "According to Mark" in manuscripts, it has traditionally been assigned to John Mark, in whose mother's house (at Jerusalem) Christians assembled. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"

"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1488)"
We certainly do not know whether Mark was the author or not! The quote clearly states "no direct internal evidence of authorship". Also, the so-called unanimous testimony of the early church:

- Does not prove that the author was Mark.

- Nor does it prove that other people did not alter and modify the book, especially when the book was written at least 40-50 years after Christ. We don't even know if Mark even wrote the book.


"Traditionally, the gospel is said to have been written shortly before A.D. 70 in Rome, at a time of impending persecution and when destruction loomed over Jerusalem. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes [1], page 1528)"

"This verse, which reads, "But if you do not forgive, neither will your heavenly Father forgive your transgressions," is omitted in the best manuscripts. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1081)"

"This passage, termed the Longer Ending to the Marcan gospel by comparison with a much briefer conclusion found in some less important manuscripts, has traditionally been accepted as a canonical part of the gospel and was defined as such by the Council of Trent. Early citations of it by the Fathers indicate that it was composed by the second century, although vocabulary and style indicate that it was written by someone other than Mark. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1088)"

So, in reality, we don't really know whether Mark was the sole author of this Gospel or not, nor do we know when and where the "gospel" was even written. And since The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus, then how are we to know for sure that the current "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by some pro of Mark?

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes [1], page 1528)

This quote raises a very serious issue here. First of all, as we've seen above in the first quote, we have no evidence that proves that John Mark was the sole author of this so called "Gospel". Second of all, we see that this Gospel has some serious problems/suspicions in it. The issue of Mark 16:9-20 is a scary one, because many Christian cults today use poisonous snakes in their worship and end up dying.

Removing Mark 16:9-20 is quite appreciated by me personally (to be quite honest with you), because it prevents people from dying from snake bites. But however, the serious issue of man's corruption of the Bible remains.

We can be absolutely certain now that the above quotes prove without a doubt that the Bible is doubtful. The quote "or its original ending has been lost" proves that what we call today "Gospels" were not written by their original authors such as Mark, John, Matthew, etc... It proves that the Gospel had been tampered with by man. Let alone considering it as the True Living Words of GOD Almighty.

If John Mark wasn't the one who wrote Mark 16:9-20, then who did? And how can you prove the ownership of the other person? Let alone proving that it was GOD Almighty's Revelation. And as we saw in the first quote above, we don't even know that John Mark was indeed the one who wrote the so called "Gospel of Mark".

To say the least in our case here, we now have enough evidence to discard the entire Gospel of Mark from the Bible, because you can't take bits and pieces of it and say some of it belongs to him and some of it doesn't! Let alone considering the entire corrupted Gospel as the True Living Word of GOD Almighty, which is a complete blasphemy.


"The identification of Luke as the author is primarily based on the "we" passages in Acts (beginning in Acts 16:10), which indicate that Luke was associated with Paul in his ministry and wrote down the account of his activities. (The Amplified Bible, Page 1153)"


"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke. (From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1643)"

There is a serious forgery about Jesus' "resurrection on the third day" claiming that it was foretold in the OT when it wasn't! Let us look at Luke 24:44-48 from the NIV Bible:

Luke 24

44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:44-48 says that it is written in the Law of Moses (i.e., the Torah) that Jesus will die and resurrect on the third day. Where in the entire Old Testament (not just in the 5 books of Moses that make up the Law of Moses or the Torah) do you have that?! Show me one Old Testament verse that prophesized about Jesus' third day resurrection?

i can continue on and on..........

[Bowman]

Originally Posted by Islam432

And yet i know better about Bible than you

You don't know anything about the Holy Bible, brother....not even what you google...

[Bowman]

Originally Posted by Islam432

You need to tell that to Christian scholars who claim that,personally i dont know Hebrew so i cant confirm

The first truth which you have stated.

[Bowman]

Originally Posted by Islam432

There is a serious forgery about Jesus' "resurrection on the third day" claiming that it was foretold in the OT when it wasn't! Let us look at Luke 24:44-48 from the NIV Bible:

Luke 24

44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:44-48 says that it is written in the Law of Moses (i.e., the Torah) that Jesus will die and resurrect on the third day. Where in the entire Old Testament (not just in the 5 books of Moses that make up the Law of Moses or the Torah) do you have that?! Show me one Old Testament verse that prophesized about Jesus' third day resurrection?

Good thing that we have the Koran to clear-up the matter for us...


Sura 89


الفجر

“Alfajri”

“The Dawn”

(Named in honor of the Biblical Jesus’ Resurrection on the Third Day)





Sura 89 begins by recalling the Gospel account of Matthew regarding Jesus’ crucifixion until death upon the cross; His burial; and His subsequent singular resurrection after spending three days and three nights in the earth.

The second half of this sura splits-off and splices together verses from the Book of Revelation regarding Jesus’ opening of the seals and His Second coming to redeem His Elect for entrance into Heaven.






Summary:


89.1 And/by the dawn. (Announces & swears by the morning of Jesus’ singular Resurrection)

89.2 And three nights. (Swears by the three nights Jesus was in the earth)

89.3 And/by the two days after the sacrifice and the third day. (Swears by the three days Jesus was in the earth)

89.4 And/by the night when He departed. (Swears by Jesus’ empty tomb)

89.5 Is in that an oath to an understanding? (Asks if the reader understands)

89.6 Did you not see how your Lord He has returned from the grave? (Jesus’ singular resurrection)

89.7 A sign, Lord of the pillar. (Jesus carrying the Cross)

89.8 Which has not been built similar to it in the city? (Jesus crucified outside the city)

89.9 And a small round cavity whom they hewed out the rocks in the valley (Jesus’ grave)

89.10 And King, Lord of the wooden stakes. (Jesus being crucified)

89.11 Whom he rose high in the cities. (Jesus being crucified)

89.12 So they spread in her the corruption. (Babylon the Great)

89.13 So your Lord he poured on them various kinds of punishment. (Jesus opening the Seals)

89.14 Truly your Lord with the ambush. (Jesus’ Second Coming)

89.15 So rather the people when that which he tried him, his Lord, so he has honored him and made him prosperous, so he says: "My Lord he has honored me." (The Elect)

89.16 And rather when that which He tried him, so He straightened on him his provision, so he says: "My Lord disgraced me." (The Second Death)

89.17 Not at all, but you do not honor the orphan. (Babylon the Great)

89.18 And nor urge on feeding the poor. (Babylon the Great)

89.19 And you eat the heritage, state of eating, wholly and indiscriminately. (Babylon the Great)

89.20 And you love the wealth, love very much. (Babylon the Great)

89.21 Not at all when the earth shall be made level, without hills, and without mountains. (Jesus opening the Sixth Seal)

89.22 And your Lord He came and the angels row (after) row. (Jesus’ Second Coming)

89.23 And he was brought then on that day to Hell; then on that day he receives admonition (from) the people, and where for him the reminder? (The Second Death)

89.24 He says: "O! If only I brought about for my everlasting state of existence." (The Second Death)

89.25 So on that day he will not punish torment; he punished him alone. (The Second Death)

89.26 And none shall bind His bond alone. (The Second Death)

89.27 O! you the soul, the at rest. (The First Resurrection)

89.28 Return you to your Lord in blissful happiness, well pleased. (The First Resurrection)

89.29 So you enter in My slaves. (Jesus’ Elect entering through the gates of Heaven)

89.30 And you enter My treed garden. (Jesus’ Elect entering through the gates of Heaven)

[DeitySlayer]

Islam432, despite your constant assertion that the Bible contains no external proof that Mark wrote Mark, etcetera., you fail to realize that the exact same is true of the Qur'an. Where's the proof it was dictated by Allah?

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by Bowman

Good thing that we have the Koran to clear-up the matter for us...


Sura 89


الفجر

“Alfajri”

“The Dawn”

(Named in honor of the Biblical Jesus’ Resurrection on the Third Day)





Sura 89 begins by recalling the Gospel account of Matthew regarding Jesus’ crucifixion until death upon the cross; His burial; and His subsequent singular resurrection after spending three days and three nights in the earth.

The second half of this sura splits-off and splices together verses from the Book of Revelation regarding Jesus’ opening of the seals and His Second coming to redeem His Elect for entrance into Heaven.






Summary:


89.1 And/by the dawn. (Announces & swears by the morning of Jesus’ singular Resurrection)

89.2 And three nights. (Swears by the three nights Jesus was in the earth)

89.3 And/by the two days after the sacrifice and the third day. (Swears by the three days Jesus was in the earth)

89.4 And/by the night when He departed. (Swears by Jesus’ empty tomb)

89.5 Is in that an oath to an understanding? (Asks if the reader understands)

89.6 Did you not see how your Lord He has returned from the grave? (Jesus’ singular resurrection)

89.7 A sign, Lord of the pillar. (Jesus carrying the Cross)

89.8 Which has not been built similar to it in the city? (Jesus crucified outside the city)

89.9 And a small round cavity whom they hewed out the rocks in the valley (Jesus’ grave)

89.10 And King, Lord of the wooden stakes. (Jesus being crucified)

89.11 Whom he rose high in the cities. (Jesus being crucified)

89.12 So they spread in her the corruption. (Babylon the Great)

89.13 So your Lord he poured on them various kinds of punishment. (Jesus opening the Seals)

89.14 Truly your Lord with the ambush. (Jesus’ Second Coming)

89.15 So rather the people when that which he tried him, his Lord, so he has honored him and made him prosperous, so he says: "My Lord he has honored me." (The Elect)

89.16 And rather when that which He tried him, so He straightened on him his provision, so he says: "My Lord disgraced me." (The Second Death)

89.17 Not at all, but you do not honor the orphan. (Babylon the Great)

89.18 And nor urge on feeding the poor. (Babylon the Great)

89.19 And you eat the heritage, state of eating, wholly and indiscriminately. (Babylon the Great)

89.20 And you love the wealth, love very much. (Babylon the Great)

89.21 Not at all when the earth shall be made level, without hills, and without mountains. (Jesus opening the Sixth Seal)

89.22 And your Lord He came and the angels row (after) row. (Jesus’ Second Coming)

89.23 And he was brought then on that day to Hell; then on that day he receives admonition (from) the people, and where for him the reminder? (The Second Death)

89.24 He says: "O! If only I brought about for my everlasting state of existence." (The Second Death)

89.25 So on that day he will not punish torment; he punished him alone. (The Second Death)

89.26 And none shall bind His bond alone. (The Second Death)

89.27 O! you the soul, the at rest. (The First Resurrection)

89.28 Return you to your Lord in blissful happiness, well pleased. (The First Resurrection)

89.29 So you enter in My slaves. (Jesus’ Elect entering through the gates of Heaven)

89.30 And you enter My treed garden. (Jesus’ Elect entering through the gates of Heaven)

Whats the point & plz make ur post short and to the point

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by DeitySlayer

Islam432, despite your constant assertion that the Bible contains no external proof that Mark wrote Mark, etcetera., you fail to realize that the exact same is true of the Qur'an. Where's the proof it was dictated by Allah?

There are actually many books written that how Bible has been corrupted by time and most of the writers of books are Christians , i dont have the time to prove it to you here

secondly about Quran i already proved on previous page that it has been preserved from 1400 years ,not a single word added or subtracted

If you have proof bring a contradiction in Quran bcz humans are bound to make errors

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by Bowman

الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون

Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi ma lakum min doonihi min waliyyin wala shafeeAAin afala tatathakkaroona yudabbiru al-amra mina alssama-i ila al-ardi thumma yaAAruju ilayhi fee yawmin kana miqdaruhu alfa sanatin mimma taAAuddoona

“allah” whom he created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them in six days, then he sat on the throne, none from a mediator and nor intercessors for you from other than him, so do you receive admonition? He manages the affairs continuously the affair from the clouds to the earth, then (it) ascends to him in a day was his measurement one thousand years from what you count. 32.4 - 5


No doubt that Ibn Abbas read these creation verses as 6,000 years, brother.

Where else would he have come to this conclusion?

I think iam wasting my time here , i already proved it to you , its up to you to believe it or not

[Islam432]

Originally Posted by Bowman

You would need to prove any of them right, brother.

Thus far, all you have done is to slavishly google them from the web...

Even then i know better about Bible then you
1)i Can prove from bible there is crucifixion
2)Jesus(pbuh) never claimed divinity , not a single verse in bible which supports this idea
3)There is no thing as trinity in bible
4)According to bible you shouldn't have pork etc

the list goes on