for the LDS - Science and Religion co-exist for us (Jesus Christ, priest)

[madhatter85]

I hear sometimes people talk about things liek the big bang theory and the theory of evolution as if they are nonsesical and seem as if they would take offense to the notion that we may have at one time been monkeys.


The bible and the D&C and the book of Mormon are very allegorical and vage when it comes to the actual creation, describing "what" happened rather than "how" it happened aside from the priesthood power of our Jesus Christ.

now, that said, i will try to explain how it is possible for our theology and science to co-exist using modern theories as to the nature of the universe and the nature of homosapiens.

Before i get to the main part i would like to bring up a few things that have been stated and taught within the church ever since the restoration.

1: Spirits are matter, there is no such thing as immaterial matter, that matter is more refined and requires purer eyes to see.

2: The Lord works in a natural order to things.

3: God is intelligence, just as somethign exists there is space above it and subsequently there is something to exist above that. so is one intelligence more intelligent than another and God is more intelligent than they all.

I have been reading a book on particle physics and theory. and there is a hugh particle accelerator here in washington state that allows us to see the tiniest known particles in existence, Quarks and Leptons. now they only exist for a very short space of time before decaying as they are unable to sustain themselves. and thus decay into smaller unknown particles which we are unable to detect with our current technology. this not only concludes two theories, but also helps support the "big bang" theory.

Thoery A: that matter is eternal and infinite, matter cannot be destroyed or completely removed fromexistence, matter can only change form, decay or split to become a differen from of matter. just as fire burns a piece of wood, it is separating carbons from oxygen and other elements stored within the matter that wood is made of.

Theory B: Matter that is smaller requires "purer eyes" to see (i'm thinking of microscopes and hughe magnets in particle accelerators that provide an extreme magnification allowing us to detect Quarks and Leptons. because our "unrefined" eyes definitely cannot see it)

Now, this supports the Big Bang theory as in the universe is expanding and eventually will collapse on itself and start the cycle all over again. seeing as matter is never destroyed it could possibly perpetually continue to condense and expand.

that being said. our LDS theology says that our Father in heaven also had his own father in heaven and achieved exaltation along side him in a "continuation of the seeds forever and ever".
My possible theory is that our heavenly fatehr could have been given or found (whatever) a "ball of matter" to organize his own universe with and for his own purposes.

Now as to the theory of evolution. It states that God created man from the dust. and as we have evidence that proves evolotionary physics, could not that have been "How" God created man fromt eh dust? that over time Man was formed into what he is now? (it's a stretch and i may get flamed i know, but... it's a possibilty) we will probably never know untill we cross through the veil, but it's interesting to think about.


Also for the intelligencepart. Look at what we have, Modern science and advancements in technology are all showing God's hand in helping us. The internet, Wikinomics and the mass collaberation of the world changes everything. each of us int he world know put a small pin prick of what our father in heaven knows and through things like the web and communcations, we are able to share everything with virtually anyone, everywhere nearly INSTANTLY.

For me, Science is the "How", and Religion is the "why".

Thoughts? Comments?

[madhatter85]

and please, i know it said "for the LDS" but i'm really targeting more than just that audience. so pleas eif anyoen from any faith has something to add please do.

thanks

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

For me, Science is the "How", and Religion is the "why".

Thoughts? Comments?

BOOOOM!!! Awesome! It's good to find someone else who agrees with my opinions on this subject. I agree with everything you've said. Although I don't believe in evolutions. I do believe in adaptation. But as you said I don't think we wiull really know until we move beyond the veil. While I don't believe Mankind evoloved I have no problem accepting it if that's whow it really happened.

[Hexaqua_David(II)]

Originally Posted by Sola'lor

BOOOOM!!! Awesome! It's good to find someone else who agrees with my opinions on this subject. I agree with everything you've said. Although I don't believe in evolutions. I do believe in adaptation. But as you said I don't think we wiull really know until we move beyond the veil. While I don't believe Mankind evoloved I have no problem accepting it if that's whow it really happened.

What do you mean? You believe in adaptation but not evolution? I honestly do not understand that at all. Could you please explain why you believe in one and not the other? What do you believe happens to fish in a lake when the level falls enough to produce isolated ponds? Do the fish of the same species in the different ponds undergo the exact same adaptations?

- David

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by Hexaqua_David(II)

What do you mean? You believe in adaptation but not evolution? I honestly do not understand that at all. Could you please explain why you believe in one and not the other? What do you believe happens to fish in a lake when the level falls enough to produce isolated ponds? Do the fish of the same species in the different ponds undergo the exact same adaptations?

- David

Technically, adaptation is evolution or mutations. although evolution is definitely over the course of alonger perod of time.

an example of rapid evolution or adaptation manifests in things such as Metaplacia (sp?), it is a rare condition where human cells will mutate based on new stimuli or enviromental conditions.


So it hink what he is saying is that while he does not believe that evolution from one species such as apes to human occur, minor genetical variations occur over just a few generations based on enviroment.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

So it hink what he is saying is that while he does not believe that evolution from one species such as apes to human occur, minor genetical variations occur over just a few generations based on enviroment.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it. LIke with those moths than adapted to their environment change and they became black. Now there are white and black moths. But those black months didn't evolve to become strange new creatures. They just adapted as moths.

[Fluffy]

The LDS have always struck me as being as being remarkably open to scientific advancement especially when compared to some other Christian denominations.

The only thing I can say generally on this subject is that in order for any religion to coexist with science, that religion must be as flexible as science. For example, you mention one possible model of universe creation/destruction and it is certainly well supported (I personally like Richard Dawkins attempt to cast it in evolutionary terms). However, there are alternatives and so theism must be ready to coexist along these lines as well depending upon which of them turn out to be true.

[logician]

There is no evidence that spirits exist, certainly as matter, or as anything else.

Your statements are more like statements from Genesis.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by logician

There is no evidence that spirits exist, certainly as matter, or as anything else.

Your statements are more like statements from Genesis.

Science tells us to reject only that which has been falsified. I don't see the problem in this case.