Does Nature Have Laws? (mystic, experience, verse, science)

[Storm]

What do you think? Is there any such thing as natural law? Or is it just our attempt to impose order on an inherently chaotic system?

Please note, by "natural law," I am NOT referring to the statements of science. However you personally esteem science, it is the map - it is what we can say about nature. I wish to discuss the territory.

[Sunstone]

There be no natural laws that I ken.

[Storm]

Could you elaborate?

I agree that natural law is beyond our ken, but I think it exists.

[mball1297]

I'd have to say that any natural law is just our perception of the way things work. It depends on what you mean by law, though. Do you mean that something works a certain way in a certain situation all, or at least, most of the time? Or is there something more to it?

[Storm]

Originally Posted by mball1297

I'd have to say that any natural law is just our perception of the way things work.

No no no, not our perception. That's science, the map. I'm asking you to speculate about the territory.

It depends on what you mean by law, though. Do you mean that something works a certain way in a certain situation all, or at least, most of the time? Or is there something more to it?

That's as good an explanation as any.

I guess another way to attack the question is "Is nature comprehensible (even if we don't yet comprehend it)?" Are there rules that science is in the process of discovering, or is science ultimately an exercise in futility?

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Storm

No no no, not our perception. That's science, the map. I'm asking you to speculate about the territory.


That's as good an explanation as any.

I guess another way to attack the question is "Is nature comprehensible (even if we don't yet comprehend it)?" Are there rules that science is in the process of discovering, or is science ultimately an exercise in futility?

I would have to say that everything is comprehensible, not necessarily by us, but by some awareness. Maybe that comprehension is where the mystical awareness comes in. Maybe that's the key to comprehending things that science can't teach us. I think science is very useful, and I do think that it is discovering many of these rules. I don't think it is absolutely the only answer. I think it's possible that there are things unexplainable by science, but explainable by other methods. With that said, I haven't experienced these other things yet, and so I trust that science is our best source of information about the universe.

[stephenw]

I think comprehension involves conscious understanding, this can only exist within a paradigm, cultural, scientific, religious whatever. That in itself restricts our comprehension to the paradigm within which it occurs unless we can transcend paradigms.
I don't know if that is possible

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by stephenw

I think comprehension involves conscious understanding, this can only exist within a paradigm, cultural, scientific, religious whatever. That in itself restricts our comprehension to the paradigm within which it occurs unless we can transcend paradigms.
I don't know if that is possible

So, basically understanding requires a context. Is that right?

[stephenw]

Originally Posted by mball1297

So, basically understanding requires a context. Is that right?

Understanding including those of the scientific or religious type are constrained by context. For arguments sake understanding with a small u.
Is understanding with a capital U, that transcends context possible ? Objective reality.
I'm starting to believe in the existence of objective reality myself, that may be my 'leap of faith'.