Does Nature Have Laws? (mystic, experience, verse, science)

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Because one can have a reality in which a thing is observed both as "what it seems" and as "illusion" (maya).

Alright, perhaps I misunderstood maya as I find I see no distinction between those two.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Why would being "applied by the human mind" make them "not what they seem"? As I pointed out earlier, some (meaning me) would argue that they are exactly what they seem. Reality, to us, is apparent (seeming).

The human brain is natural (and this harkens back to the OP), as are its processes.

Because most people are taught that a lot of things are not just "applied by the human mind". So, if things are just applied by the human brain, it goes against what they are taught, and therefore different from how it seemed to them. They are exactly what they seem to each of us, but the way you see something is different than the way I see it. So, it seems one way to me, and another to you, and therefore your way is different than the way it seems to me.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Alright, perhaps I misunderstood maya as I find I see no distinction between those two.

Things are what they seem and also not what they seem. And yes, this becomes an aspect of what things "seem to be" - i.e. it becomes a part of organized "reality" when it is reduced to language. Which is why there are so many reminders that the sign is not the thing signified, the map is not the terrain and the truth is ineffable.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Things are what they seem and also not what they seem. And yes, this becomes an aspect of what things "seem to be" - i.e. it becomes a part of organized "reality" when it is reduced to language.

Or seems to...

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Or seems to...

Depending on the perspective, yes. But it may also seem not to.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

- i.e. it becomes a part of organized "reality" when it is reduced to language.

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not organized, then.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by mball1297

They are exactly what they seem to each of us, but the way you see something is different than the way I see it. So, it seems one way to me, and another to you, and therefore your way is different than the way it seems to me.

And it is apparent to me that the way you (or anyone) see something is different from the way I see something when such discussions arise. Still, the way you see something different from the way I see it is apparent to me.