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  #11  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
You would do well to develop an appreciation of Escher ...
Back in my college days, he was fun. Now he bores me.
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  #12  
Old 02-11-2008, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by djrez4 View Post
Do not underestimate my obtuseness! You asked if science can ever prove anything. I think you answered your own question.
Under any 'reasonable' definition of proof.
I used a non conventional defintion, but proof in the purest sense does not exist, therefore it is pointless to have a word regarding it.
Quote:
I'm adding conditions to test the source of the pain. Is the pain the result of the broken arm? Or is it the result of a neuron firing in the brain? I see no need to get all huffy when someone adds to the discussion.
Still, it wasn't in the intial bit.
Anyhow, an MRI will figure it out in no time.
And sorry if I appeared huffy
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by djrez4 View Post
Back in my college days, he was fun. Now he bores me.
That says more about you than about Escher. My comment stands.
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:25 PM
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Who is Escher?

Science proves things according to a specific understanding of proof.

Science makes statements according to a specific understanding of reality and those statements should be regarded as such just in case that understanding is wrong.

I think that this definition and understanding are reasonable but I don't wish to take them as given since to do so would be to ignore, and so undermine, their basis. It would be unreasonable to say that science is rubbish, useless, suspect, weak, untrustworthy e.t.c. just because it doesn't conform to a stricter standard of proof than this.

It should only be called suspect when these important caveats are not taken into consideration. The sceptic should be called suspect when they are given more consideration than they deserve.
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2008, 06:49 PM
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The proof is in the pudding.
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
Under any 'reasonable' definition of proof.
I used a non conventional defintion, but proof in the purest sense does not exist, therefore it is pointless to have a word regarding it.
Well then we agree!

Quote:
Still, it wasn't in the intial bit.
Anyhow, an MRI will figure it out in no time.
And sorry if I appeared huffy
First time I broke my arm, the docs X-rayed the wrong part. I had a spiral fracture of the humerus and they kept looking at my forearm and wondering why they couldn't find a break. My brain couldn't differentiate the location of the pain. Finally, one of the X-ray techs noticed my left humerus was about three inches shorter than the right and more X-raying commenced. Six to eight weeks later, my arm was whole again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
That says more about you than about Escher. My comment stands.
And I accept your comment. We're talking about the artist/mathematician, right?
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2008, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by djrez4 View Post
Well then we agree!
Awww....
But disagreeing is no fun.

Quote:
First time I broke my arm, the docs X-rayed the wrong part. I had a spiral fracture of the humerus and they kept looking at my forearm and wondering why they couldn't find a break. My brain couldn't differentiate the location of the pain. Finally, one of the X-ray techs noticed my left humerus was about three inches shorter than the right and more X-raying commenced. Six to eight weeks later, my arm was whole again.
Another swing on my part, and another miss.
Oh well.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2008, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunstone View Post
Can science prove anything? If so, what and why? If not, why not?

Bonus question: Can your doctor prove the pain in your arm is caused by a broken bone?
It depends on how reasonable I want to be. If I really want to be pedantic, cynical, and distrusting, I could never really prove anything. In the real world, I will wait until it is unreasonable for me to say that their hypothesis is wrong.

If my doctor straightens out my bone, and I don't feel pain, it certainly is possible that it might not have been the bone, but who is going to be that unreasonable when they have been freed of their pain?
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunstone View Post
Can science prove anything? If so, what and why? If not, why not?

Bonus question: Can your doctor prove the pain in your arm is caused by a broken bone?
Science can prove what is not. This it what makes it useful to religion, forcing it to evolve.

Everything in science is inference. It sees an effect, measures it, and infers something from it. Electromagnetism, for example: it's not seen except by what it does and from that scientists infer something and give it a name. Particle physics is another: scientists see effects in a cloud chamber and infer something is causing it. The Big Bang is inferred, as is the multiverse theory and God-as-a-concept.
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2008, 02:50 PM
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