Do the Laws of Nature Exist Independent of the Human Mind? (verse, Articles)

[Sunstone]

Do the laws of nature exist independent of the human mind? Are they real things that exist in themselves, or are they only human constructs? What do you think? Why?

[Sunstone]

Does anyone want to take a shot at this?

[Random]

I hold that Nature is essentially Lawless. We impute it with varying levels of predictability via our intellectual perception of its cycles and motions, but fundamentally Nature is Anarchy, it is the Unruly, the unbound, the Wild. Its changes are entropic and the order we percieve in it is an illusion born of the interface of chaos and rationality.

Secondly, I hold that the source of Nature's entropy is human beings. WE are the entropic force in Nature, which is why our subsistence is essential for its continuance. You only have to look to the present state of the World to see Man's effect on Nature.

Furthermore, I hold that the reason for all of this is that Reality is a Deterministic simulation, by which I mean the Universe is maintained by the power of the Collective Unconscious of the Human race. We dreamt a dream together and one day it became our shared Consensus Reality and hardened fast to our perceptions of it, with our respective souls/consciousnesses as its operating programs. Reality thus contains Nature, but is not identifiable with it on a supramundane level.

Therefore, as said before, Consciousness is whatever consciousness is conscious OF, so WE ARE NATURE, because we are conscious of it and that is its content. It does NOT, cannot, "exist" @ all independent of Mind. Without entropy, Nature will fail, or transform and become something else, not-nature.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Do the laws of nature exist independent of the human mind? Are they real things that exist in themselves, or are they only human constructs? What do you think? Why?

The laws of physics incorporate the observer into them. When particles are unobserved they have wave like properties.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Panda

When particles are unobserved they have wave like properties.

How do we know that, if they are unobserved?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Do the laws of nature exist independent of the human mind?

Yes.
because if humans were not here, they would still work the same.
Actually, I will go out on a limb an suggest that they would likely work better because if human were not here than we would not be interfering with them.

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Are they real things that exist in themselves, or are they only human constructs?

I suspect that it depends upon with whom you are speaking.
Since no definition of "Laws of Nature"" has been given...

Originally Posted by Sunstone

What do you think? Why?

I think that before we can actually begin an in depth discussion we must first have at least one definition given of "Laws of Nature."

[Random]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Yes.
because if humans were not here, they would still work the same.
Actually, I will go out on a limb an suggest that they would likely work better because if human were not here than we would not be interfering with them.

This is contradicted by your final assertion.

I think that before we can actually begin an in depth discussion we must first have at least one definition given of "Laws of Nature"

Lol! Can't wait to see someone try this...

[Panda]

Linky

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Random

This is contradicted by your final assertion.

How so?

Originally Posted by Random

Lol! Can't wait to see someone try this...

Actually, i have seen many different definitions.
The question is, which one is to be used for this thread?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Panda

Linky

Your point being?
This merely demonstrates that human observation changes the rules.