Science confluenced with Religion (Earth, creation, genesis, theist, scriptures)

[gramps]

After you aspire to a certain age one might began to appreciate how God utilizes the Science HE created in the first place to bring about HIS purposes.
For example: almost everyone knows that the flood at the time of Noah is not a complete story. If there was water over the tops of the mountains by 22 feet, there would still have to be 22 foot of water over those same mountains. There is absolutely no way of disposing of water.
If we study the 7th chapter of Genesis very carefully one might discover, to a somewhat confusing thought, that the earth was flooded before it began to rain.
In Gen 7: 4 God told Noah to go abord the ark with all his family, which he did immediately, but Noah said he went in, "Because of the waters of the flood." In the 7th chapter the 10th verse, it reads, "The waters of the flood were upon the earth." This was all before it began to rain. In verse 11 it reads, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up and the windows of heaven were opened. By that we can say that it began to rain. But actually rain had nothing to do with it.
If you have studied science 302 in college you should have studied about the planet Venus and how because of its high eccentricity, it comes within 25000 miles of earth every 18000 years. It was the gravitational pull of venus that actually caused the flood because of tide and one other element which we have to go back to the time of the creation of the earth to even begin to understand.
On the 2nd day of creation God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters. So God created the firmament and divided the waters which were UNDER the firmament from the waters which were ABOVE the firmament."
The firmament is simply the atmosphere which surrounds the earth. If there was water over the top of the atmosphere or firmament, where the temperature could well reach minus 400 degrees, the water would naturally be ICE. The gravitational pull of Venus broke the canopy of ice that had hung over the earth for at least 1600 years. So the talest mountains were indeed covered with 22 foot of water in the form of ice, but at the same time covered the valleys with the same amount of ice since Ice does not seek a level as does water.
Venus also cause most of earth's mountain ranges to be created by what science calls "Orogeny" or by simply pulling the mountains out of the earth. In fact, there is a mountain in California, rightefully name "Mount Diablo" or Devil Mountain. It was pulled completely out of the ground somewhere near Mojave, CA and landed upside down near the town of Walnut Creek, CA some 400 miles from where it was pulled out. One can find the older rock formations on the top and the newer ones on the bottom. Completely the opposite of what it should be.
So yes, there was a flood which was caused by ice. The ice covered the tops of the mountains by 22 feet and began to melt. As the ice melted it filled up all the low places of the earth until some 450 years after the flood the earth was divided into separate continents.
There is much more to the lesson on science about the flood, but you can't blame anyone for not believing in the flood if they don't have enough information to know how God utilized science to create the flood. Now I would like to disect the 11 verse of the 7th chapter.

11: in the six hundredeth year of Noah's life, the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains (water or ice) of the great deep (space not ocean) were broken (actually broken) up and the windows of heaven were opened. Just visulize that if you had never seen the moon, the sun in all its glory, or the stars or the endless asure blue mystery of endlessness, what better way could Noah have expressed that grandeur that opened to his unbelieving eyes than to say, "the windows of heaven were opened."

The date of the flood is very important to us. When we are told, "There is a year, and month and a day, for those of you who understand, let him understand." Since that is the only year, month, and day given as a time of tribulation if our scriptures, I'm sure it will mean much to us in the future.

God is the greatest scientist that ever lived and I can assure you, in many such cases that God will utilize some science to bring about his purposes.

Love
gramps

[robtex]

Originally Posted by gramps

God is the greatest scientist that ever lived and I can assure you, in many such cases that God will utilize some science to bring about his purposes.

Love
gramps

That statement is contadictory in nature if God is proposed is omnipotent. If God has to use science to bring about his purposes than by virtue of his need of science he is non-omnipotent. The more prevenlant standard in the theist camp is that of supernaturalism which is God is beyond the laws of the universe and therefore omnipotent. If God is not beyond the nature than he is subservient to nature and thus by no means omnipotent.

The flood you talk about, if it were an actual event, would mark God in man's eyes as a mass murder.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by robtex

The flood you talk about, if it were an actual event, would mark God in man's eyes as a mass murder.

i don't believe that it did happen, but if we assume that it did, it is only a bad or evil act because we are subject to our own point of view, we can't remove ourselves from the universe to see the whole picture.

[michel]

Originally Posted by gramps

God is the greatest scientist that ever lived and I can assure you, in many such cases that God will utilize some science to bring about his purposes.

Love
gramps

I would go along with that; I believe that what we call science is merely understanding and being able to manipulate facets of our world.

But I believe that there is so much more, about which we yet know nothing.

[almifkhar]

not meaning in any way to get off topic i just wanted to make a point

in ancient times, to be educated ment knowing four subjects
1.science
2.math
3.philosophy
4.religion

of course these can be subdivided into say geology and biology
the reason why only these four subjects were taught was because all four go hand in hand with one another. all holy books have all four of these subjects with in them, and they were put there because these are the books that stand the test of time.

back on subject
i don't agree with your theory gramps
i do agree that a flood happened, infact i science is starting to prove that more than one has occured. i think it happened because of earths electromagnic cycles, venus may play a part in this though.

[drekmed]

Originally Posted by gramps

If you have studied science 302 in college you should have studied about the planet Venus and how because of its high eccentricity, it comes within 25000 miles of earth every 18000 years. It was the gravitational pull of venus that actually caused the flood because of tide and one other element which we have to go back to the time of the creation of the earth to even begin to understand.

was the "25000" a typo? because that would mean that venus comes as close to the earth as the earth's circumference. do you mean 250,000? because then it would be out just beyond the moon. how about, 2,500,000? nope. try 25,000,000 (that's 25 million) miles away at its closest point in the orbit, and this happens oh, probably once a year or so, and i haven't seen an earth covering flood this year.
i find it difficult to believe that science 302 would teach anything as preposterous as what you say. what college did you go to again? i think a professor needs to be fired, or was this something they told you sunday school?

now, lets assume that venus was 25,000 miles away from the earth right now. what do you think would happen?
i'll tell you what would happen. you, and everbody else on the earth would look up in the sky, blink a few times, then turn to Bruce Wayne and say "Holy Sh*t Batman, there's a huge gray ball in the sky!" then, immediately after that happened Tinkerbell would throw pixie dust on us and we would all think happy thoughts and fly off to Never, Never Land.

although, in all seriousness, if Venus were to actually come that close to the earth, it would have a kind of slingshot effect on both planets. sadly i dont know how to figure out the trajectory they would both go, but i imagine it would render the earth completely uninhabitable.

i would counter the rest of your post, but frankly after reading what i quoted, i couldn't bring myself to finish it. im sure its filled with similar unscientific dribble.

here is a little link for the distance to Venus, from wikipedia.

try getting your facts straight next time

Drekmed

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by robtex

That statement is contadictory in nature if God is proposed is omnipotent. If God has to use science to bring about his purposes than by virtue of his need of science he is non-omnipotent.

Robtex, I don't believe that either you or gramps are using the word "science" accurately. Science is nothing more than systemetized knowledge derived from study, observation and experimentation. It's simply a means of establishing facts and principles. Claiming that God "has to use science to bring about His purposes," is a totally meaningless statement.

The more prevenlant standard in the theist camp is that of supernaturalism which is God is beyond the laws of the universe and therefore omnipotent. If God is not beyond the nature than he is subservient to nature and thus by no means omnipotent.

Now you're talking about "natural law," which (judging from your last statement, you are using as a synonym for "science" when science is just the study of those laws. From a theist's point of view, God established the laws of the universe and, for the most part, allows the universe to exist according to the way these laws operate on it. This does not mean that He is subservient to them.

The flood you talk about, if it were an actual event, would mark God in man's eyes as a mass murder.

While I'm not convinced that the entire earth was ever covered by water, I believe that from Noah's perspective, it was. As to whether that makes God a mass murderer, I'm afraid I disagree. As our Creator, God has the right to destroy that which He created. And it's certainly not as if those who died in the flood were not given sufficient warning. They simply chose to ignore it.

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

I'm afraid they are using the word science correctly. "The greatest Scientist ever." Meaning he understands ever law because he created them.

Once God created this universe is bound to the rules in it while he is here. Now he can change those rules, but that might render his creation useless. Give me time in the bible that God's "Miracle" wasn't in the bounds of these laws.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by robtex

The flood you talk about, if it were an actual event, would mark God in man's eyes as a mass murder.

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of one human by another human - so in order to apply the term you are going to have to show that the flood was unlawful and that God is a human