atheism = unscientific (reject, beliefs, followers, theist, agnostic)

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

The absence of evidence is, in all cases, evidence. The quality/worth of this evidence depends on the likelihood of such an absence.

I understand that, and in many cases it is true - afterall in life we must operate on such assumptions.

But, i still disagree. For example, there is not actual proof for the existance of dark matter, yet there is a need for it - is the absence of evidence for dark matter evidence of its absence?

Also, there is the matter of technological and scientific understanding. Two thousand years ago there was no evidence for the existance of Pluto, does that therefore mean that 2,000 years ago there was no Pluto?

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Thus you believe that this applies to the Invisable Pink Unicorn and Flying Spaghetti Monster as well?

Of course, i thought that would have been obvious .

Originally Posted by Tiberius

You're claiming that this doesn't apply to god because he doesn't have a basis in the real world? BTW, what is the real world basis of a unicorn or fairy?

Exactly. I already gave you the real world basis for those, go back and follow the links in my post.

Originally Posted by Tiberius

And you're also claiming it doesn't apply to God because you believe he created the world? Why should the requirements of proof be different for God just because he is said to have done something the others haven't? if I find a story about a fairy creating the world, does that mean the same thing applies to fairies as well?

Fairies aren't deity, they're fairies. I don't think you understand the idea of deity emanating the very concept of existance and therefore not being subject to being defined by it, which i tried to explain before.

Originally Posted by Tiberius

What about all those miracles? Feeding the great crowd with a loaf of bread? Surely there would have been one person who wrote that down!
.................................................. ...................................
Including the records of herod's order to kill all the male children? And what about the other instances in the Bible? We have very good records of Egyptian history, yet there is no record of the plagues of Egypt.

I don't remember saying that i believed in the miracles. And i certainly don't believe in the "Massacre of the Innocents".

Originally Posted by Tiberius

So the fact the believe he existed even though they don't like him? That's evidence? Somebody believing one particular point of view despite the fact they'd prefer it to be wrong is proof that their point of view is correct? Etc...

The modern day remnants of the followers of John the Baptist, a recognised historical figure, who believe in Jesus of Nazareth as a real person, but that doesn't play a big part in their belief system. Yes, i count that as quite good evidence.

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by halycon

...is the absence of evidence for dark matter evidence of its absence?

Perhaps we can all have a peek to decide if the evidence exists.

wikipedia:

Much of the evidence for dark matter comes from the study of the motions of galaxies. Many of these appear to be fairly uniform, so by the virial theorem the total kinetic energy should be half the total gravitational binding energy of the galaxies. Experimentally, however, the total kinetic energy is found to be much greater: in particular, assuming the gravitational mass is due to only the visible matter of the galaxy, stars far from the center of galaxies have much higher velocities than predicted by the virial theorem. Galactic rotation curves, which illustrate the velocity of rotation versus the distance from the galactic center, cannot be explained by only the visible matter. Assuming that the visible material makes up only a small part of the cluster is the most straightforward way of accounting for this. Galaxies show signs of being composed largely of a roughly spherical halo of dark matter with the visible matter concentrated in a disc at the center. Low surface brightness dwarf galaxies are important sources of information for studying dark matter, as they have an uncommonly low ratio of visible matter to dark matter, and have few bright stars at the center which impair observations of the rotation curve of outlying stars.

[Halcyon]

Careful mr.guy, this is not evidence for dark matter.

It is evidence that there is something in the universe that accounts for the discrepincy between the amount of visible matter and the kinetic energy in galactic motion. Dark matter is one theoretical explaination, it has not however been shown to exist.

[stemann]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Careful mr.guy, this is not evidence for dark matter.

It is evidence that there is something in the universe that accounts for the discrepincy between the amount of visible matter and the kinetic energy in galactic motion. Dark matter is one theoretical explaination, it has not however been shown to exist.

I very much agree with you here, but I was wondering when the line drawn between "Dark matter is one theoretical explaination" and "evidence for dark matter" is crossed.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by stemann

I very much agree with you here, but I was wondering when the line drawn between "Dark matter is one theoretical explaination" and "evidence for dark matter" is crossed.

I guess when we find some other evidence, unrelated to galactic motion, that supports the theory.

Also, a jar of dark matter would be handy

[stemann]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Also, a jar of dark matter would be handy

Dang, you *know* they only sell those in boxes of 20. And the shipping and handling from Cygnus A is just way too much, I'm sorry.

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by stemann

Dang, you *know* they only sell those in boxes of 20. And the shipping and handling from Cygnus A is just way too much, I'm sorry.

Can you get me a bowl of relativity while you're there?

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

Can you get me a bowl of relativity while you're there?

And a handful of gravity as well.

B.

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by MdmSzdWhtGuy

And a handful of gravity as well.

Shoot! Almost left that off the list...my own banana bread recipe needs a quarter cup of it if it's to turn out correctly.

[Tiberius]

*coughtopiccough*