Is There An Absolute Truth? (ritual, moral, America, experience)

[Sunstone]

Although conditional truth (i.e. a property of the relationship between a descriptor and the thing described) is fairly well defined in philosophy and science, the notion of unconditional, or absolute, truth seems to me to be much less investigated and defined.

For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it? How is it even possible to know an unconditional truth or whether one exists? I have never found positive answers to those questions. Have you?

[Fluffy]

For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it? How is it even possible to know an unconditional truth or whether one exists? I have never found positive answers to those questions. Have you?

If there is a possibility that something might not be true then that thing cannot be said to be absolutely true, no matter how small that possibility. We can use doubt to determine whether this possibility exists: if we can doubt something then it is not absolutely true, if we can't then it is.

Attempt to doubt whether you are thinking. Doubt is in itself a special case of thought. Therefore, in doubting, you are self-justifying the absolute truth of the existence of your thoughts. "I am thinking" is therefore an absolute truth. However, a thought must have a thinker since that is an essential part of its definition (an analytic truth). And so we derive "I think therefore I am" or the cogito. This is known as rational foundationalism.

Attempt to doubt your experiences. It seems evident (via the arguments of illusion, delusion, dreaming and the evil daemon) that we can doubt everything that our senses tell us. However, what is indubitable is the actual sensory data. For example, if we look at an orange, we can say "I doubt that the orange is actually there" but we cannot say "I doubt that I am under the impression that I am experiencing an orange". This is known as empirical foundationalism.

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Although conditional truth (i.e. a property of the relationship between a descriptor and the thing described) is fairly well defined in philosophy and science, the notion of unconditional, or absolute, truth seems to me to be much less investigated and defined.

For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it? How is it even possible to know an unconditional truth or whether one exists? I have never found positive answers to those questions. Have you?

Yes. It is compassion. Self giving love. Even animals perform this for their young and members of their groups. Forests survive through each plant giving the others what support it can.

This is kinda related to my response in the "American Idiots" thread. There's a culture now where we aim, not to support each other, but to support only ourselves. Not sure if those over 40 will see it, and perhaps it's only a growing up thing I'm noticing in the younger generation. It doesn't seem normal to me though.

/ramble

So assuming that there is nothing more than the Universe therefore making an absolute truth a Universal truth, the (rather obtuse) point is this :

A universal truth is that the Universe is self supporting. IMO it does this in a benign compassionate way, commonly known as Agape or self-giving love.

[evearael]

I believe in absolute truth, but it not something attainable by humans.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Although conditional truth (i.e. a property of the relationship between a descriptor and the thing described) is fairly well defined in philosophy and science, the notion of unconditional, or absolute, truth seems to me to be much less investigated and defined.

For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it? How is it even possible to know an unconditional truth or whether one exists? I have never found positive answers to those questions. Have you?

Sure. Existentialism and Platonism suck, and quantum physics is a fraud.

Materialistic existence is absolute.

If you don't believe that, PM me your credit card number.

Sheesh

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by evearael

I believe in absolute truth, but it not something attainable by humans.

Platonism is an ugly thing.

[CyclicFlow]

To me, there is no Universal Truth, no Universal Moral, nothing is universal...

I always use the fact that anybody can see from any amount of viewpoints. Although they are rare, some people have no porblem with killing (whereas most people do), not everbody believes World Peace is a goal for the planet (I would fall under that category), and on and on. To me, the fact that these perspectves can not only be seen but believed is proof that there is no universal moral. Nobody is inherently born with a code of ethics, although we are all instilled with one by learning from our parents and school systems!

There is more to this, ask in thread or PM if you want it...I just didn't feel like typing everything out.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

Yes. It is compassion. Self giving love. Even animals perform this for their young and members of their groups. Forests survive through each plant giving the others what support it can.

This is kinda related to my response in the "American Idiots" thread. There's a culture now where we aim, not to support each other, but to support only ourselves. Not sure if those over 40 will see it, and perhaps it's only a growing up thing I'm noticing in the younger generation. It doesn't seem normal to me though.

/ramble

So assuming that there is nothing more than the Universe therefore making an absolute truth a Universal truth, the (rather obtuse) point is this :

A universal truth is that the Universe is self supporting. IMO it does this in a benign compassionate way, commonly known as Agape or self-giving love.

I agree in this absolute truth, it's one of many. Let me see if I can give you a little rundown of some absolute/universal truths . . .

1. the laws of physics
2. the laws of nature
3. the law of attraction (karma - or reaping and sowing)
4. the law of forgiveness
5. the law of reflection (as above, so below-as within, so without)
6. the law of prosperity (also known as the 3-fold law)

These are the rules by which we are playing this game of life. Some physical laws, some spiritual laws, but all are working in your life every minute of every day.

[Melody]

Absolutely...for each individual.

[stemann]

[QUOTE=Sunstone]For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it?[/quote]

It exists, but by its nature we can't know it- Heisenberg's Indeterminacy Principle. It is the reason we can never define consciousness, as we are subject to it, and we can never fully define the universe, because as we observe it we thereby change it.

Originally Posted by CyclicFlow

To me, there is no Universal Truth, no Universal Moral, nothing is universal...

I always use the fact that anybody can see from any amount of viewpoints. Although they are rare, some people have no porblem with killing (whereas most people do), not everbody believes World Peace is a goal for the planet (I would fall under that category), and on and on. To me, the fact that these perspectves can not only be seen but believed is proof that there is no universal moral. Nobody is inherently born with a code of ethics, although we are all instilled with one by learning from our parents and school systems!

So there is no universal morality, I agree with you there. But that is not the entire definition of Absolute Truth. Are there absolute physical laws?

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

1. the laws of physics
2. the laws of nature

What is the difference between these two?

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

3. the law of attraction (karma - or reaping and sowing)
4. the law of forgiveness
5. the law of reflection (as above, so below-as within, so without)
6. the law of prosperity (also known as the 3-fold law)

What are these?