Is There An Absolute Truth? (moral, America, experience, moral)

[Radio Frequency X]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Although conditional truth (i.e. a property of the relationship between a descriptor and the thing described) is fairly well defined in philosophy and science, the notion of unconditional, or absolute, truth seems to me to be much less investigated and defined.

For instance, if it is claimed that such a thing as absolute truth exists, then how do we know of it? How is it even possible to know an unconditional truth or whether one exists? I have never found positive answers to those questions. Have you?

Absolute Truths appear to be nothing more than truths by definition. For example, Anslem's "God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived", or basic mathmatical equations, chemical equations, tautologies and so forth.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by stemann

I know! That's why I said:

And I reiterated what I meant, I just put it in different words... But anyhoo.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by PureX

"The definition of an absolute truth requires that it not be dependent upon or conditioned by an external criteria (ie: not relative). In the case of "2+2=4", un-applied, it's a meaningless presumption. But the moment we apply it to something real, it's truthfulness becomes dependent upon the criteria of the application.

All you need to do is go back to basic. Use your fingers, and count two fingers from one hand and two fingers from the other. To me, that absolute enough to be both true and proof.

However, if you don't know how to count, then it is something you must learn.

Or heaven-forbid (sorry, but I don't believe in heaven, so I don't know why I use this word), you don't have any finger, then I am afraid I can't help you there.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by evearael

I believe in absolute truth, but it not something attainable by humans.

We're almost on the same page; I just don't have that certainty. I'd say that if there is any absolute (or ultimate) truth, it's not attainable by humans.

Originally Posted by ChrisP

Yes. It is compassion. Self giving love. Even animals perform this for their young and members of their groups. Forests survive through each plant giving the others what support it can.

This is kinda related to my response in the "American Idiots" thread. There's a culture now where we aim, not to support each other, but to support only ourselves. Not sure if those over 40 will see it, and perhaps it's only a growing up thing I'm noticing in the younger generation. It doesn't seem normal to me though.

I think this is deserving of consideration. Compassion may not be absolute truth, but it's certainly the supreme moral value.

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Platonism is an ugly thing.

That may not be Absolute Truth, but it's absolutely true.

[Truth101]

Originally Posted by CyclicFlow

To me, there is no Universal Truth, no Universal Moral, nothing is universal...

I always use the fact that anybody can see from any amount of viewpoints. Although they are rare, some people have no porblem with killing (whereas most people do), not everbody believes World Peace is a goal for the planet (I would fall under that category), and on and on. To me, the fact that these perspectves can not only be seen but believed is proof that there is no universal moral. Nobody is inherently born with a code of ethics, although we are all instilled with one by learning from our parents and school systems!

There is more to this, ask in thread or PM if you want it...I just didn't feel like typing everything out.

You are attempting to disregard absolute truth and replace it with relative views. This is just silly. Let me ask you, If I have 2 apples and you have one and you give me yours, how many do I have? 5? 10? 40? My friend just might believe I have 10 and you may believe I have 40 but the absolute truth is I have 3. A relative view does not rule out the absolute truth that I only have 3 even if I dont believe it myself. Absolute truth is universal and can be applied to anything. The relative never outlaws the absolute. There is only one truth for anything whether accepted, believed or acknowledged.

Dave

[sahra-t]

Originally Posted by Truth101

You are attempting to disregard absolute truth and replace it with relative views. This is just silly. Let me ask you, If I have 2 apples and you have one and you give me yours, how many do I have? 5? 10? 40? My friend just might believe I have 10 and you may believe I have 40 but the absolute truth is I have 3. A relative view does not rule out the absolute truth that I only have 3 even if I dont believe it myself. Absolute truth is universal and can be applied to anything. The relative never outlaws the absolute. There is only one truth for anything whether accepted, believed or acknowledged.

Dave

But who says that these dots here < . . . > really represent what we call "3"? We do. To me, that's not absolute.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by gnostic

All you need to do is go back to basic. Use your fingers, and count two fingers from one hand and two fingers from the other. To me, that absolute enough to be both true and proof.

However, if you don't know how to count, then it is something you must learn.

Or heaven-forbid (sorry, but I don't believe in heaven, so I don't know why I use this word), you don't have any finger, then I am afraid I can't help you there.

But you're ignoring all the instances in which the equasion ISN'T true, and looking only at the instance in which it is. Not even your fingers are really "equal", except by name.

[Truth101]

Originally Posted by sahra-t

But who says that these dots here < . . . > really represent what we call "3"? We do. To me, that's not absolute.

If thats not absolute enough for you than you must live in an unconsious reality. This statement makes no sense on any level.

I bet if I told you ill give you $500,000 for your house and I only give you $100,000 you would get a quick understanding of what absolute is. I absolutely tried to rip you off.

God Bless, Dave

[sahra-t]

Originally Posted by Truth101

If thats not absolute enough for you than you must live in an unconsious reality. This statement makes no sense on any level.

I bet if I told you ill give you $500,000 for your house and I only give you $100,000 you would get a quick understanding of what absolute is. I absolutely tried to rip you off.

God Bless, Dave

Forgive me, I don't really understand what you mean with your house example.

To me, it is not absolute because we defined 3. We could just as easily have given it another symbol and another name. The fact is, we chose 3 and three.