Which Is Higher: Deity Or Truth? (Jesus, faith, God, religion)

[fantôme profane]

When I first read the question I was trying to think of a quote I heard once, and then I realized that you were using it as your sig.
“There is no God higher than truth. Mahatma Gandhi”


For any deity to be higher than truth would not just be illogical, it would mean there could be no logic. I can’t accept that. We may only have access to relative truth, or approximations of truth, but I believe that there is an ultimate truth. And I believe that that ultimate truth is Divine truth.



p.s. this is the second poll I have seen by you that mentions this movie. Am I the only one that is completely clueless? What movie are you talking about?

[joeboonda]

31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
(King James Bible, Psalms)

Being truth is an atribute of Almighty God. He is "God who cannot lie..."

[Sunstone]

I've noticed in the poll no one has picked "diety trumps truth", and yet I've occasionally heard a theist or two in other threads make an argument that deity created not only the universe, but the laws or rules whereby something is true or false, and moreover is powerful enough to make anything at all happen, including things that would confuse and mix up truth and falsehood. What do you think of that peculiar position held by some folks?

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Mike182

Phil, can you explain your definition of truth to me in a different way, if possible?

Sure, Mike. No problem. Truth is quite clearly whatever Bill O'Reilly, Famous American Bimbo (FAB), says it is. Falsehood, on the other hand, is whatever Ted Kennedy, equally Famous American Bimbo (eFAB), says is truth. Meanwhile, whatever Tony Blair, Famous British Bimbo Extraordinaire (FBIBIE), says George Bush, Wannabe American Bimbo (WAB), says, is properly called "speculation" in polite company. Thus, truth can be convienently reduced to the following easy to memorize formula: "Truth is the FAB except when contradicting the eFAB on Tuesdays when the FBIBIE is mysteriously closeted with the WAB." I certainly hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Mike The Rightly Peeved

Phil, can you explain your definition of truth to me in a different way, if possible?

My favorite anology for the definition in the OP (i.e. conditional truth is a property of the relationship between a descriptor and the thing it describes) is that of a map and the terrain it describes. The map is the descriptor, the thing that does the describing. To the extent the map describes the terrain accurately, the map is said to be true (or truthful). So, accuracy and truthful are near synonyms. But why call this sort of truth "conditional"?

I suppose because truth is here a relationship or condition, rather than something to be properly identified with either the map or the terrain.

...what is the difference between conditional and absolute truth?

If conditional truth is a relationship or condition, unconditional or absolute truth must dispense with any relationship or condition. Therefore, absolute truth must be capable of being directly apprehended without the mediation of a relationship. An example of this would be the direct, unmediated apprehension of thought or thinking itself.

...and how does your definition take pragmatic truth into account?

American or British Pragmatism? Do you mean the movement founded by Charles Sanders Peirce, or that other guy on the other side of the pond from me whose name I can never remember please forgive me?

If Peirce, then I would guess the definition of conditional truth is simply presupposed by the scientific method Perice advocates as the only rational way to "fix" , or arrive at, beliefs.

I hope I didn't bore you to tears with my childlike humor.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Sure, Mike. No problem. Truth is quite clearly whatever Bill O'Reilly, Famous American Bimbo (FAB), says it is. Falsehood, on the other hand, is whatever Ted Kennedy, equally Famous American Bimbo (eFAB), says is truth. Meanwhile, whatever Tony Blair, Famous British Bimbo Extraordinaire (FBIBIE), says George Bush, Wannabe American Bimbo (WAB), says, is properly called "speculation" in polite company. Thus, truth can be convienently reduced to the following easy to memorize formula: "Truth is the FAB except when contradicting the eFAB on Tuesdays when the FBIBIE is mysteriously closeted with the WAB." I certainly hope that helps.

yep, clarity and enlightenment has just been reached....

American or British Pragmatism? Do you mean the movement founded by Charles Sanders Peirce, or that other guy on the other side of the pond from me whose name I can never remember please forgive me?

If Peirce, then I would guess the definition of conditional truth is simply presupposed by the scientific method Perice advocates as the only rational way to "fix" , or arrive at, beliefs.

I hope I didn't bore you to tears with my childlike humor.

well, my intention was to try and argue the pragmatic theory of truth, that is to say, we only accept things as true which produce beneficial results, also seperating out truth from dillusion, because truth by its very nature is life-enhancing, where as dillusion by its very nature is life-diminishing - involves thinkers such as John Dewey and William James

[ChrisP]

That really was a great movie. I thought Tom Cruise was great in it... specially with the whole truth thing to it you know... really made him seem... like an average American guy.

[Scuba Pete]

It's not so much that they are "co-equal" as much as it is they are one in the same.

God=truth=love

However, sometimes our perspective is jaundiced or skewed and we can not see God or the truth. Hence we try to force our perception of reality on the truth and it just doesn't fit.