How Do We Know What Ultimate Reality Is? (verse, divine) - Page 4

Kungfuzed · #31 10-07-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seyorni

Good point.
Understanding of Reality is an ongoing process. The TOE seeks to unite relitivity and quantum theories.

And the bad KNEE predicts the weather.

Random · #32 10-07-2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer085

The one idea I cannot come to a conclusion on is whether the universe would exist if there was no conciousness anywhere, i.e. if nobody perceives it, is it really there?

NO. Presence defines Reality, presence requires Consciousness to introduce Time and the Quantum effects of this process impact @ the sub-atomic level, maintaining the Real by inversion, encyclically. If no-one is experiencing or has experienced it, it doesn't exist. However, this does not apply to the concept of God who transcends this arrangement: He simply IS, indwelling and constant.

logician · #33 10-08-2006, 06:03 PM

"However, this does not apply to the concept of God who transcends this arrangement: He simply IS, indwelling and constant."

This is your concept, however, no evidence exists to support this assertion.

Random · #34 10-08-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer085

This is your concept, however, no evidence exists to support this assertion.

Prove to me you can conceptualize what I'm talking about properly, then you won't need to ask for hard proofs of self-evident things.

fantôme profane · #35 10-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godlike

NO. Presence defines Reality, presence requires Consciousness to introduce Time and the Quantum effects of this process impact @ the sub-atomic level, maintaining the Real by inversion, encyclically. If no-one is experiencing or has experienced it, it doesn't exist. However, this does not apply to the concept of God who transcends this arrangement: He simply IS, indwelling and constant.

Be careful. This is only one possible interpretation of Quantum physics. Others might speculate that our conscious observations do not affect reality but merely limits our perceptions to one actuality out of multiple possibilities. In other words all of the possibilities that exist before the observation continue to exist after the observation, but after the observation we will only be able to perceive one. It is not reality that is limited, it is us. If this is the case then conscious is not needed for existence.

JerryL · #36 10-08-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Be careful. This is only one possible interpretation of Quantum physics. Others might speculate that our conscious observations do not affect reality but merely limits our perceptions to one actuality out of multiple possibilities. In other words all of the possibilities that exist before the observation continue to exist after the observation, but after the observation we will only be able to perceive one. It is not reality that is limited, it is us. If this is the case then conscious is not needed for existence.

This is also a more consistant opinion as it avoids the "checken or egg" prblem of the alternative. If reality cannot exist without an observer, and an observer is real, then an observer cannot exist without reality which relies on his existace. It's circular.

logician · #37 10-10-2006, 06:25 PM

"Prove to me you can conceptualize what I'm talking about properly, then you won't need to ask for hard proofs of self-evident things."

No god-concept is unversally "self-evident", otherwise it would be universally accepted.

Random · #38 10-10-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer085

No god-concept is unversally "self-evident", otherwise it would be universally accepted.

I did not say it was Universally self-evident or accepted, you have introduced this now to save your argument. Regardless, my statement remains true and no hard proof can be asked for or given in such matters, nor is any required.

autonomous1one1 · #39 10-11-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunstone

What is Ultimate Reality?
How do we know that is so?

Lots of good humor in this thread, Sunstone. Where do you come up with these questions? lol

As one who used the term 'ultimate reality' in another thread let me explain. First of all, words and terms only point to what one means. For example, there were not any two postings that agreed on the meaning of 'religion' in that other thread; so the use of religion is only a pointer and will be interpreted differently but with some degree of commonality. My use of the term 'ultimate reality' was meant to point the reader to something most important for interpretation of 'ultimate concern' rather than to more normal concerns such as money that people have. This is not a cop out, however, on use of the term 'ultimate reality,' for, to me, it applies to the knowledge gained from Enlightenment. How do we know it is so - though Enlightenment.

As to whether science can ever help with this kind of knowledge is uncertain in my thinking. My belief in science is great, and if science turns attention to enhanced work on the mind, consciousness, and awareness and can couple that with fundamental theories as Seyorni mentions, who knows in time. My favorites relate to the unified field theory bringing in 'other dimensions' and quantum field theory trying to explain the first very, very small fraction of a second in the big bang theory. My arrival to RF is too recent to have allowed time to read the other science threads so my apologies if these comments are redundant.