Give me a critical analysis of this.. (Earth, beliefs, creation)

[Abdul Latif]

Some Muslims quote a verse in association with the origins of Iron as one of the many scientific miracles of the Qur'an:

Professor Armstrong works at NASA, otherwise known as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, where he is a well-known scientist there. We met with him and asked a number of questions about Quraanic verses dealing with the expertise in Astronomy. We asked him about iron and how it was formed. He explained how all the elements in the earth were formed. He stated that the scientists have come only recently to discover the relevant facts about that formation process. He said that the energy of the early solar system was not sufficient to produce elemental iron.

In calculating the energy required to form one atom of iron, it was found to be about four times as much as the energy of the entire solar system. In other words, the entire energy of the earth or the moon or the planet Mars or any other planet is not sufficient to form one new atom of iron, even the energy of the entire solar system is not sufficient for that. That is why Professor Armstrong said that the scientists believe that iron is an extraterrestrial that was sent to earth and not formed therein.

We read to him the Quraanic verse saying: «"And we sent down Iron, in which is Great might, as well as many benefits for mankind"» (Quraan 57-25).

from beconvinced.com

Where did Iron come from?

[standing_alone]

I see that story is off of a religious website. Do you have any other (secular) sources that back up this story in your post?

[Abdul Latif]

I couldn't find anything to be honest. Though it would be interesting if I could.

[standing_alone]

Yeah, I was just wondering because I've seen similar stories regarding NASA to back up certain Christian beliefs that were complete fiction.

[Popeyesays]

Scientist have known since the 1950's the source of iron in the universe.

Our sun is a Population II star, these stars were formed after the explosion of Population I stars in super-novae.

When the tiny inconceivably dense ball of energy exploded and produce all the matter and energy in the universe it was so extremely dense that no matter could exist within it, not even sub-atomic particles. There were no elements in full form within that first pico seconds of Creation. It was all quarks so hot and dense they could be nothing but quarks.

With the release of the energy, it immediately became less dense and hot. So sub-atomic particles began to form as the quarks came together. In a later stage those sub-atomic particles united into light elements almost all hydrogen, but traces of helium and lithium.

These elements eventually coalesced into stars - remember nothing heavier than lithium existed at all - these stars are the Population I stars of which I spoke earlier.

In the heat and pressure of these stars elements could be fused together and all the elements we know up to the weight of iron were formed within the Population I star.
Iron is however and inhibitor of the fusion process, as more and more iron is formed the Population I star begins to strangle, and the strangulation causes it to super nova.
This is true of all Population I stars - including the ones we can actually see today.

There is so much energy and pressure within the star when it blows that the elements within the star are fused together into more and more complex elements. Trans-ferrous elements form up until the heaviest elements we can create ourselves in a particle accelerator. Those heaviest elements are of course unstable and most break down into mroe stable elements immediately.

Now there are huge clouds of the nova remains of Population I stars. These clouds of matter again coalesce into stars - Population II stars. These stars have within them all the elements of the periodic table, and the planets that form within the stellar cloud do as well.

That's wehre trans-ferric elements come from - in essence they are not formed within our sun, but they were already here from the stellar clouds of the super-novae.

You can look it up by putting things like "stellar formation" or "Population I star" into a search engine.

Regards,
Scott

[Abdul Latif]

Okay... Very interesting:

From Wikipedia (under meteorites)

'The three main classes of meteorite are stony, stony-iron and iron.'

'Stony iron meteorites constitute the remaining 2%. They are a mixture of iron-nickel and silicate minerals. They are thought to have originated in the boundary zone above the core regions where iron meteorites originated. A small number of meteorites belong to additional groups or subgroups with unique chemical characteristics relative to other members of the larger groups, such as lunar meteorites or Martian meteorites . Tektites (from Greek tektos, molten), natural glass objects up to a few centimeters in size, were formed--according to most scientists--by the impact of large meteorites on Earth's surface, although a few researchers favor an origin from the Moon as volcanic ejecta.'

Anyone can elaborate on that? It's a little unclear to me.

It does however seem a little 'strange' that the Quran uses the word 'descended' specifically.

[ΩRôghênΩ]

quranic verses do have some things to do with astronomy. close examination though, shows us that it is open to interpretation more than anything. it is true that the arabs in that time did have an advantage in astronomical knowledge. From a christian view-point i old say this was developed by humans rather than god.

[Abdul Latif]

Ramses II - Pharoah of the exodus?

"We brought the tribe of Israel across the sea and Pharaoh and his troops pursued them out of tyranny and enmity. Then, when he was on the point of drowning, he (Pharaoh) said, "I believe that there is no god but Him in whom the tribe of Israel believe. I am one of the Muslims." What, now! When previously you rebelled and were one of the corrupters? Today we will preserve your body so you can be a Sign for people who come after you. Surely many people are heedless of Our Signs." (Qur'an, 10: 90-92)





Doctor Morris Boukay : "the results of the medical investigations came to support the previous assumption, as in the year 1975 a lameness extraction from a small muscular tissue occurred in Cairo, with the valuable help that professor Michfl Durigon offered. And the accurate microscopical examination showed the perfect preserved status for the smallest dissectional muscular parts, and it points that such a perfect preservation couldn't be possible if the body remained in water for a while, even if it stayed outside the water for a long time before it submit for the preparatory operations of the mummification. And we have done more than this while we were interested in searching for the possible reasons of the pharaoh's death."

These guys seem pretty excited: http://hudabaharoon-miracles.blogspo...ramses-ii.html

'The most amazing thing with this dead body is; it isn't a mummy. Scientists says that this dead body is amazingly preserved without any mummification, even all of the internal organs are not removed.'

What you think? How do they know that Ramses II is the Pharoah of the exodus?

[michel]

Originally Posted by Abdul Latif

Okay... Very interesting:

From Wikipedia (under meteorites)

'The three main classes of meteorite are stony, stony-iron and iron.'

'Stony iron meteorites constitute the remaining 2%. They are a mixture of iron-nickel and silicate minerals. They are thought to have originated in the boundary zone above the core regions where iron meteorites originated. A small number of meteorites belong to additional groups or subgroups with unique chemical characteristics relative to other members of the larger groups, such as lunar meteorites or Martian meteorites . Tektites (from Greek tektos, molten), natural glass objects up to a few centimeters in size, were formed--according to most scientists--by the impact of large meteorites on Earth's surface, although a few researchers favor an origin from the Moon as volcanic ejecta.'

Anyone can elaborate on that? It's a little unclear to me.

It does however seem a little 'strange' that the Quran uses the word 'descended' specifically.

I got this from Wikipedia as well..........

The first signs of iron use come from Ancient Egypt and Sumer, where around 4000 BC small items, such as the tips of spears and ornaments, were being fashioned from iron recovered from meteorites (see Iron: History). By 3000 BC to 2000 BC increasing numbers of smelted iron objects (distinguishable from meteoric iron by the lack of nickel in the product) appear in Anatolia, Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley (Pakistan and North India). However, their use appears to be ceremonial, and iron was an expensive metal, more expensive than gold. Some sources suggest that iron was being created then as a by-product of copper refining, as sponge iron, and was not reproducible by the metallurgy of the time. The earliest systematic production and use of iron implements appears from the 14th century BC in the Hittite Empire though recent excavations in Middle Ganga Valley in India done by archaelogist Rakesh Tewari show iron-working in India since 1800 BC. By 1200 BC, iron was widely used in the Middle East but did not supplant the dominant use of bronze for some time.

I know that many things we take for granted (including coffee and soap if I remember rightly) came from Muslims. The above would seem to reinforce the OP.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Abdul Latif

What you think? How do they know that Ramses II is the Pharoah of the exodus?

Actually the current theory is that he was the Pharoah of the Exodus, but that the man that pursued the Israelites across the Sea of Reeds and died there, was his first born son - the leader of his army - since at the time Rameses II himself was an old man.