Adam and Eve (Earth, evolution, bible, marriage, Biblical)

[Buttercup]

Since I am new to this forum and haven't read every single thread, (impossible!) I'm not sure if this topic has been covered previously.....

I have read that scientists & geneticists have discovered thru traced DNA that humans are decendants of a singe male & female originating from the continent of Africa.

http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/releases/m7442.html

My question to you is this: If we can trace humans to one single male & female regardless of timing,....what does that do for the theory of evolution in your mind? If all men are related, and they started from one single male human....where did that FIRST human come from? Was he a mess of organisms one day and then morphed into a human the next? Or was he Neanderthal man one day and then morphed into a modern human being the next day? Just curious as to your thoughts.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

I have read that scientists & geneticists have discovered thru traced DNA that humans are decendants of a singe male & female originating from the continent of Africa.

Not really. See What, if anything, is a Mitochondrial Eve?.

[Buttercup]

Is that paper written by a scientist or geneticist? Or a religious person? The source I list is non religious.....

[Ceridwen018]

I agree with Jay. It seems to me that you are missing the point of these things, Buttercup. These scientists are using phrases like, "The Adam of the Y Chromosome," and "Mitochondrial Eve," not because they are referring to the actual biblical characters of the Bible, but because they are trying to simplify their complex scintific message for lay people to understand. In this case, they are trying to drive home the point that they are looking for early human lineages.

In the threads where you post, you seem to find good and interesting sources, Buttercup, but I'm afraid you have a knack for misinterpreting them.

[Buttercup]

What are talking about Ceridwen018???? Where do I say anything about these two people being the biblical Adam and Eve? The titles of Adam and Eve are used by the AUTHOR of the ARTICLE, not me. He labels the source of the first DNA code to ONE human male he names Adam and ONE human female he names Eve.

And what about the question I ask? It has nothing to do with the bible...I am asking about your thoughts on evolution and the fact that we descend from ONE male and ONE female....how does that figure into your thoughts on evolution?

I think you missed my point actually.....

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Since I am new to this forum and haven't read every single thread, (impossible!) I'm not sure if this topic has been covered previously.....

I have read that scientists & geneticists have discovered thru traced DNA that humans are decendants of a singe male & female originating from the continent of Africa.

http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/releases/m7442.html

My question to you is this: If we can trace humans to one single male & female regardless of timing,....what does that do for the theory of evolution in your mind? If all men are related, and they started from one single male human....where did that FIRST human come from? Was he a mess of organisms one day and then morphed into a human the next? Or was he Neanderthal man one day and then morphed into a modern human being the next day? Just curious as to your thoughts.

"Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y Chromosome Adam" were not a couple; "Adam" lived many thousands of years after "Eve." Likewise, "Y Chromosome Adam" was not the first male homo sapiens, and "Mitochondrial Eve" was not the first female homo sapiens.

Everyone has two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents, and so on. If you went back 50 generations, you would have over 1.1 quadrillion ancestors in that generation alone. Obviously, there have never been 1.1 quadrillion people alive at once, so where were all your ancestors? There is a phenomenon called "pedigree collapse," which basically means you're related to yourself. Some of your ancestors married their first cousins and second cousins, for instance. If your parents were first cousins, they would share a pair of grandparents, so you'd have six great-grandparents instead of eight. If they were 2nd cousins, they'd share a pair of great-grandparents, and you'd have 14 great-great-grandparents instead of sixteen. If you could trace your ancestry back far enough, you'd find this happening time and time again. We don't tend to marry close relatives in Western countries at present, but our ancestors certainly did, and in many parts of the world people still do. Robin Fox estimates that 80% of all marriages in the history of the human race have been between second cousins. What this means, ultimately, is that all of us are related to one another in various ways, and more closely than you might think. We are all descended from Confucius and Nefertiti; everyone of European descent is descended from Muhammad and Charlemagne.

The most recent common ancestor of Europeans probably lived about 1400. But when we talk about Mitochondrial DNA and the Y Chromosome, we have to go back a lot farther.

The Y Chromosome is passed from father to son. Females, obviously, don't have a Y chromosome. My grandfather and his brothers and their sons all had the same Y chromosome, but their sisters's sons inherited their Y chromosomes from the sisters' husbands.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from mother to child. My mother and her sisters and their children all have the same MtDNA, but their brother's children inherited their MtDNA from the brother's wife.

My maternal grandparents, Ross and Edna, had eight grandchildren. Five of us (the children of my grandparents' daughters) share the same MtDNA as Edna. Two of my cousins (the sons of my mother's brother) share the same Y Chromosome as Ross.

But with Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosome Adam, we're working the other way, and because of pedigree collapse we will eventually reach a point where we all have the same male ancestor in the male line -- that is, our father's father's father's father, and so on. Our most recent common ancestor in the male line was an unknown man who lived in Africa about 59,000 years ago: Y-Chromosome Adam. But Y-Chromosome Adam wasn't the first man, or the only man alive at the time. There were many men alive at the time, and many of them still have descendants alive today. Their male-line descendants have died out, but they still have living descendants through their daughters and granddaughters.

Same thing with Mitochondrial Eve. We trace our female line ancestors -- mother's mother's mother's mother, and so on -- and eventually we arrive at a woman who is the female-line ancestor of everybody living today: Mitochondrial Eve, an unknown woman who lived in Africa around 140,000 years ago. But Mitochondrial Eve wasn't the first woman, or the only woman alive at the time. There were many women alive at the time, and many of them still have descendants alive today. Their female-line descendants have died out, but they still have living descendants through their sons and grandsons.

It's important to realize that while Y-Chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve were very real -- though unknown -- people, they represent points of convergence in our ancestry. They are the most recent common ancestor in the male line and the most recent common ancestor in the female line, respectively, of everyone living today. Ten thousand years ago, the point of convergence would have been different -- there would have been male and female lines that had not yet died out -- and "Y-Chromosome Adam" and "Mitochondrial Eve" for everybody alive at that time would be two different people. Likewise, some male and female lines that still survive today can be expected to die out over the next ten thousand years, and "Y-Chromosome Adam" and "Mitochondrial Eve" for everyone alive ten thousand years in the future would be yet again two different people.

So in other words, we didn't start from one single male and one single female. We're all relatives, and all descend from many thousands of males and females, one of whom is our common ancestor in the male line, and one of whom is our common ancestor in the female line. "Adam" lived many thousands of years after "Eve," and both "Adam" and "Eve" had neighbors and relatives who also still have living descendants today.

[Buttercup]

Your points make sense and of course I also thought of the long lineage of DNA passed down thru generations not necessarily starting with THE ONLY man and woman on earth. But, Geneticist Spencer Wells makes it sound as though they (his Adam and Eve) were the first line of humans.

"It's interesting that both genetics and the Bible show that there is a common origin of humanity. According to genetic data we come from a single male ancestor."

I may have to get his book as I have only read exerpts from various sources. Do you quote from a source I can read from? Thanks!

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Do you quote from a source I can read from? Thanks!

There are a lot of books on the subject. Some I've found particularly interesting are:

The Mountain of Names, by Alex Shoumatoff
The Seven Daughters of Eve, by Bryan Sikes
Mapping Human History, by Steve Olson

(None of them are about Mitochondrial Eve or Y-Chromosome Adam specifically, but they cover some of the same ground.)

I haven't read Richard Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution yet, but I'm expecting to like it when I do.

A good introduction to evolution for believers who have a religious problem with the subject is Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search For Common Ground Between God And Evolution, by Kenneth R. Miller.