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  #111  
Old 08-18-2007, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hope View Post
Indeed! Maybe God was just playing around one day and "accidentally" set off the big bang.

Even accidents have a cause. They do not come from nothing.
I gave the cause.
Asimov thought that if there was matter present in nothingness (no space/time) a massive explosion of energy would occur. In the short story, a professor goes back in time to the start of the universe in his experimental research vessel and inadvertently causes the big bang.
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  #112  
Old 08-20-2007, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hope View Post
Indeed! Maybe God was just playing around one day and "accidentally" set off the big bang.

Even accidents have a cause. They do not come from nothing.
Are you suggesting that your god makes accidents? I just want to underfstand. We are constantly told that "God" is perferct and everything that he/she/it does is no accident.
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  #113  
Old 08-20-2007, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DreGod07 View Post
Are you suggesting that your god makes accidents? I just want to underfstand. We are constantly told that "God" is perferct and everything that he/she/it does is no accident.
I don't know about all that, but God sure has a sense of humor. Just take a look at an Aardvark.
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  #114  
Old 08-20-2007, 09:25 AM
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Hope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on treesHope thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by DreGod07 View Post
Are you suggesting that your god makes accidents? I just want to underfstand. We are constantly told that "God" is perferct and everything that he/she/it does is no accident.
No---what I am trying to point out is that from an atheist's perspective of the universe, even accidents shouldn't be able to happen, because saying something happened by accident presupposes there was something there even before the accident happened. Accidents do not come from nothing. Accidents require matter, movement, etc.

Example: I accidentally drop a plate on the floor and it shatters into tiny fragments. Could that accident have happened if I, or the plate, or the floor did not exist? Obviously, it could not. Likewise, the universe does not just "accidentally" pop into existence from nothing.
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  #115  
Old 08-20-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
I gave the cause.
Asimov thought that if there was matter present in nothingness (no space/time) a massive explosion of energy would occur. In the short story, a professor goes back in time to the start of the universe in his experimental research vessel and inadvertently causes the big bang.
You obviously do not understand the inconsistency I'm trying to point out here. You say you gave the cause. But you have a very limited definition of "nothingness." When I say "nothing," I literally mean absolutely nothing. No space, no time, no matter.....nothing. Your definition still allows for the existence of matter. It has to, for your "cause" to make any sense! Your cause only explains how the matter turned into the universe----it does not explain where that matter came from. And that is what I'm trying to point out. An "accident," according to your own explanation, can only happen if there is already matter in existence.

So, as I said, even accidents do not come from nothing.They have an ultimate cause. Take the example I gave in my previous post. What "caused" the accident of my dropping the plate on the floor? A series of events. Which started with my picking up the plate. So let's follow the sequence here: 1) I, the plate, and the floor exist; 2) I pick up the plate; 3) I drop the plate; 4) the plate falls and hits the floor; 5) the plate shatters. Could the accident have happened if I, or the plate, or the floor did not exist? No, of course not. The accident requires the existence of all three things, and then a sequence of events, to happen. The ultimate cause of such an accident is actually the existence of "me." The plate does not pick itself up and drop itself on the floor. So the next natural question would be, Where did "I" come from?

In a similar manner, where did that matter come from that "accidentally" turned into the universe?

I hope all of this makes sense. I don't have a scientific mind, so my way of explaining things like this might be a bit discombobulated.
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Last edited by Hope; 08-20-2007 at 10:00 AM.
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  #116  
Old 08-20-2007, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hope View Post
You obviously do not understand the inconsistency I'm trying to point out here. You say you gave the cause. But you have a very limited definition of "nothingness." When I say "nothing," I literally mean absolutely nothing. No space, no time, no matter.....nothing. Your definition still allows for the existence of matter. It has to, for your "cause" to make any sense! Your cause only explains how the matter turned into the universe----it does not explain where that matter came from. And that is what I'm trying to point out. An "accident," according to your own explanation, can only happen if there is already matter in existence.
It does, if you read the short story. Here is a basic summary- A man invents a time machine and decides to go back to see the formation of the stars, but he goes back to far to the start of the universe, causing the big bang inadvertently.
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  #117  
Old 08-20-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
It does, if you read the short story. Here is a basic summary- A man invents a time machine and decides to go back to see the formation of the stars, but he goes back to far to the start of the universe, causing the big bang inadvertently.
You actually believe this?
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  #118  
Old 08-20-2007, 03:10 PM
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You actually believe this?
No, its just an interesting theory.
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  #119  
Old 08-20-2007, 06:29 PM
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